Pregnant mouse? - Page 2

Macropodus · 03-20-17, 07:55 PM

Abandoned. Really? Hmmm, that's strange... I thought our invaluable advice was that if simply being alone or with unfamiliar mice got them to neglect their young they woulndt be as effective as a species. Supposed to be just wrong type of feed. 99/100 times it's wrong type of feed, so I guess this time is the 1/100 of a time that's it something else?

This, therefore, has become quite a perplexing issue. Could this be the 1 out of a hundred times that she didn't fulfill her motherly duties because she was isolated or mixed with the other, unfamiliar mice, instead of pulling the largest female mouse from the new recently acquired feeders and put her together with the pregnant mouse in a very dark, warm, quiet place with little to no disturbance?

regi375 · 03-20-17, 08:36 PM

Update: upon further inspection, it just appears that the baby was a bit further from the others. I think she's caring for the young, but it's difficult to tell through the mess of toilet paper.

Macropodus · 03-20-17, 08:44 PM

That's cool. Let's help the mod save face. And good on ya for tossing in the roll of toilet paper.

**Tsubaki** · 03-20-17, 10:41 PM

Sometimes babies get culled, I quite clearly said that. Weak ones get culled, she might not want that pinky for whatever reason.. She could even actually just be a bad mother. Other things are possible too... It might've accidentally been dragged out of the nest by holding on while nursing, mom might not have the wits to put it back. The Eating of the young is either extreme stress, or a lack of protein, small chance of it being anything else. Which is indeed 99/100 times the problem with starting breeders, wrong feed. A single pinky outside of the nest could have had multiple things happen to it (which all have nothing to do with the eating of the nest that you and I spoke about) I'm not a mouse psychiatrist, and I do not see why I would have to "save face" and can't say your reply is a very kind one with the best interest in the topic. But I'm not too petty to admit a mistake, please ensure I make one before pointing fingers next time though.

Anyway, if they had a full belly I usually gently tossed them back into the nest if something happened because my mice knew me and didn't mind me touching things, or I just used them as feeder, if they get too cold or ignored by mom they're done. Anyway, you can check how many she has, however stress is a risk, and you don't really know this animal she might find it stressful.

TRD · 03-21-17, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

I bred fancy mice for years

Same here

Now Japanese dancing mice... we have around 25 or so right now who are off limit to the snakes (much to their disappointment I could add)

Scubadiver59 · 03-21-17, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRD

Same here

Now Japanese dancing mice... we have around 25 or so right now who are off limit to the snakes (much to their disappointment I could add)

Did you put them in clear cages next to each other to see the disappointment???

TRD · 03-21-17, 07:06 PM

Opposite sides of the room now, at least can clearly see when they are hungry

regi375 · 03-21-17, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

Did you put them in clear cages next to each other to see the disappointment???

The cage I have my feeder mice in is in plain view of my cat. I've seen her sitting on the floor, staring at them. Even if they escape to avoid becoming nourishment for my snake, my cat will get them. Talk about being screwed, lol.

Macropodus · 03-23-17, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regi375

The cage I have my feeder mice in is in plain view of my cat. I've seen her sitting on the floor, staring at them. ...

So whether or not the mice can see her they can still smell her? Are they breeding for you or are they just kept there as in a holding cage until they're fed off?

We have a long-haired cat (Norwegian Forest) which requires regular grooming. Our African Soft Furred Rats are on another level of the house where the cat is not permitted. There have been a few times over the years when I inadvertently groomed the cat and then shortly afterwards went to the ASF's. They are almost always very active when we enter, even happy to see us. But on days when we smell like cat they freeze, motionless. I'd immediately leave, change clothes, wash my hands & forearms with soap/water, and then re-enter to see them back to normal.

I imagine regular exposure to cat scent could cause a decrease in reproduction rates for any small mammal from mice up to rabbits.

sattva · 03-23-17, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regi375

She has given birth! It looks like she might have abandoned some of the babies though. Would it be ok if I took a look in there to see how many are alive?

When I was a kid in like 5th grade or something I was taking my turn to baby sit two rats in a cage... Took them home and my mom made me keep them in the garage... I went out to check on them the next morning and the female had given birth and either male or the female through all the babies out of the cage onto the cold cement... They were all still alive... I brought home 2 and took back 13... Shock the whole class... Nobody knew she was pregnant...

So yea! I would check to make sure everybody is behaving...

Ps... Sorry! I saw the last post on the first page and thought it was the last post... Daaaaa

Macropodus · 03-23-17, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sattva

... two rats in a cage... Took them home and my mom made me keep them in the garage... the female had given birth and either male or the female threw all the babies out of the cage onto the cold cement... So yea! I would check to make sure everybody is behaving...

Lots of possible causes for that:
1) the male present was not the father of the pups
2) too much change in the environment, and too fast
3) temperature extremes

You said "garage... cold cement." She may have become impregnated at room temperature (e.g. 70F) and then all of sudden thrust into <50F. Not good, slows metabolism down to the point where she can't lactate.

Checking "to make sure everybody is behaving" is futile. What ya gonna do call in the Rodent Whisperer to lecture her on mother duties? IME of 40yrs of breeding Mus musculus and Rattus norvegicus females which become pregnant and then remain under the same settings/conditions thru gestation nearly always successfully raise their young. Mastomys natalensis are an exception. They will breed on low protein, high fat lab block, which is insufficient for milk production. Then as their pups starve they will eat them. Number 1 beginner mistake.

sattva · 03-23-17, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macropodus

Lots of possible causes for that:
1) the male present was not the father of the pups
2) too much change in the environment, and too fast
3) temperature extremes

You said "garage... cold cement." She may have become impregnated at room temperature (e.g. 70F) and then all of sudden thrust into <50F. Not good, slows metabolism down to the point where she can't lactate.

Checking "to make sure everybody is behaving" is futile. What ya gonna do call in the Rodent Whisperer to lecture her on mother duties? IME of 40yrs of breeding Mus musculus and Rattus norvegicus females which become pregnant and then remain under the same settings/conditions thru gestation nearly always successfully raise their young. Mastomys natalensis are an exception. They will breed on low protein, high fat lab block, which is insufficient for milk production. Then as their pups starve they will eat them. Number 1 beginner mistake.

The Rodent Whisperer!

Now that was funny... I don't remember the temps... I was 10 years old, about 56 years ago... The only real thing I know about rodents is that my snakes eat them...

regi375 · 03-23-17, 03:48 PM

I was able to bribe her with sunflower seed to gain access to the babies. All of them seemed alive, but she covered them up before I could get a pic.

regi375 · 03-23-17, 08:31 PM

I was able to get a pic of the babies. Bribing the mother with sunflower seeds finally paid off

Macropodus · 03-24-17, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regi375

I was able to get a pic of the babies. ...

Great to hear you lucked out! Now the less disturbance the better. They'll be weaned in ~1month then if you want more litters leave a male, preferably the biggest (fastest growing), in with the mom. Divi up the others into trios and more than likely that'll leave you with a few males to feed off. Some breeders just keep one big colony in a large enclosure.

If you play your cards right you'll never again have to invest in mice, you'll always have a food source (including pinkies for your hatchlings) at hand, and you can feed your mice with the best ingredients instead of the cheapest lab block. (What you put into your feeders is ultimately what you put into your reptiles.)

Then, when you get tired of their stinky stench (especially the males'), feed 'em all off and use your cages for ASF's.