Would you consider a Wester hognose a HOT?

[J_Riley]

perhaps the hognose is evolution in progress? I'm sure vipers didn't go from no venom to potent venom in 50 years...

[ETET]

I saw those pictures too, don't know is the saliva itself or may be effect of infective agents get into the guy's body after such a extensive bite. I think a formal study to extract hognose's saliva for a LD50 test will know if this snake is consider venomous or not. In the mean time, form different people's experience mostly towards hognose is a potential venomous snake. I think keep away from a bite is better than like that guy try to test how poisonous is the snake.


ETET

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

... Think of it like a bee sting.

Not many people consider them venomous(locals) and and laugh everytime I mention I was envenomated by a bee..
Anyhow,
The thing I'm getting at is that Hognoses technically are venomous, even though it's bite doesnt effect many people; Like bees..

By the way, there are pics on ************** fourms and phot gallery of hog noses gaping and yawning. They have decent sized fangs.

I hear wc hogs, especially easterns are more potent because of the high quanity of toads they eat.. Lets also not forget that when you are bit by a hog, that most of the times they dont have their fangs sunken into you. I've also noticed that they had to move a toad furtherdown their throats to even penatrate a toad with it's fangs..

Um..

Xain

[eyespy]

Interesting discussion, which brings up a question. Define "venom".

Is a venomous snake any snake which can deliver hemotoxins and/or neurotoxins? If so, almost all snakes can fall into those categories. Or is it only when a certain amount of toxin is delivered? Is LD50 the only true measure of when something is or is not a venom? Or do you go by the physiological effects of a toxin?

I know that there's been enough work done with garter snakes to say that they are definitely mildly venomous. There is a hemotoxic quality to the Duvernoy's gland secretions which causes angioedema even in the absence of a true allergic reaction. It's fairly easy to tell the difference. If the bite area swells and bruises but there are not elevated levels of histamine, trypase and igE in the bloodstream it is a true toxin rather than an allergic reaction. There are documented cases both of true envenomation and also of allergic reactions caused by garter snake bites. Thus doctors of human medicine class garters as mildly venomous even though most herpetologists don't. I've never read whether that is also true of hogs or not.

Here's a little bibliography I found of colubrid envenomations and/or studies in case anyone is interested:

http://www.herper.com/snakearticles/rfvenbiblio.html

[Mustangrde1]

I can possibly be way off on this but i have kept hognose and have been bitten unfortunately but with no effects other than a few foul words and a little blood.However I have heard of some sever reactions to the bite. In most cases these were from wild animals captured in the field .These Hognose were collected and the bites occurred in a area know to have Buffos Toads. The Buffos does have a toxin and this could be the reason and account for the bad bites.. Anyone got a opinion ?

[nahish2001]

I guess they're just not considered "hot" ENOUGH. Their "venom" is too mild maybe to be considered dangerous. I recently bought a hognose snake from a reputable dealer here in California, and it's illegal to keep hots without a license (or maybe it's always illegal, I'm so confused about this issue) Either way, if it was considered venomous enough by the people that declare what is venomous enough to sell, then it must not be venomous enough... if that made any sense.