Need Help!!

[sattva]

I want to apologize to Jays reptile... I did intend to hikack your thread but this how we seem to learn...
dannybgoode;1004894

]You're right. I'm not aware of your circumstances. Sometimes though on forums it is necessary to make assumptions and at times raise points that the other person may or may not have thought of.

Yes, and I appreciate constructive criticism and I don't mean to be disrespectful here but I am a 65 year old man and i'll chain an elephant up in my snake room and take care of it if I want to...

I hope by now from my general demeanour you can tell I do not mean offence to anyone but there are times when it is unclear from someone's posts (often across many threads) that makes me feel it worth raising certain potential issues and discussion points.

I can appreciate that!

My point about safe handing was raised because you mentioned you were perfectly comfortable about handling your retic but made no mention of anyone else. Now, there's no particular reason you should necessarily but because it's such a vital issue I thought it best to raise it.

My wife is my back up but honestly! To die by snake strangulation is sounding better then the alternatives; diabetes, heart disease, cancer... ya death by snake maybe a better way to go... So If I'm going to make it look like an accident so she can collect the insurance I can't talk about it... Mums the word...

The same is the case with the rest of my post. As I say it is not clear from what you have put over a number of posts and threads exactly what your abilities, plans, desires, dreams-call them what got will-are so I was simply highlighting some areas you may not have considered. If you have fine but it would not be in the animals interests (or yours) to simply assume that to be the case and to stay silent on some very important issues.

It's cool dude! But like I said, I don't take this responsibility lightly... I researched it for a year before I pulled the trigger... You don't have to worry about the animals interests they have a room devoted to them and I tend to their every need...

As for the viv thing so long as the snake has plenty of hides there is no reason it could not go in its adult viv. There may be some particularly nervous species of snake that this would not apply to but a retic is not one.

I haven't heard that before...Are you absolutely sure? That would save me some money!

As I say I mean absolutely no offence to anyone but we would never learn and never be challenged if we did not debate and discuss the issues pertinent to our hobby.

That's why I got George; I needed a challenge... But i'ts Cool, No offence taken... Now I need to go elephant shopping, we'll talk later...

[bigsnakegirl785]

Yup, the key is clutter not space. You need to provide cover in a way that is most efficient for that individual. If it's defensive, refuses to eat, or whatever, add hides, change the way you're offering cover like add some vines instead of relying on hides, etc.

As far as feeding, whatever will leave a lump and disappear in a couple days, I generally use the 15-20% rule for younger ones simply because a retic could digest and pass a meal 25-30% just as easily as a smaller and the bulges aren't much different in size because of the speed with which they digest. I do it just to make sure I'm not overfeeding, which in a retic generally translates to more length, but still. Don't want to push them too far.

[sattva]

bigsnakegirl785;1004913]Yup, the key is clutter not space. You need to provide cover in a way that is most efficient for that individual. If it's defensive, refuses to eat, or whatever, add hides, change the way you're offering cover like add some vines instead of relying on hides, etc.

That's funny you said that, George got a new vine like bush just yesterday... His seems to love it...

As far as feeding, whatever will leave a lump and disappear in a couple days, I generally use the 15-20% rule for younger ones simply because a retic could digest and pass a meal 25-30% just as easily as a smaller and the bulges aren't much different in size because of the speed with which they digest. I do it just to make sure I'm not overfeeding, which in a retic generally translates to more length, but still. Don't want to push them too far.

I have to admit I am a little gun shy on larger rats... When I first got him I give him a small rat and I thought he was going to split his lip, or choke him to death... It scared the hell out of me...
On a light note my little Crystal took her first fuzzy rat tonight... yaaaa!

[macandchz]

i agree with trailblazer. all things should be considered before getting into the care of the really big snakes. how many times have we read about people letting their snakes loose because they couldn't handle their care? i think turning a snake a snake loose to fend for themselves is almost equal to a death sentence. very few get rescued.

[sattva]

Originally Posted by macandchz

i agree with trailblazer. all things should be considered before getting into the care of the really big snakes. how many times have we read about people letting their snakes loose because they couldn't handle their care? i think turning a snake a snake loose to fend for themselves is almost equal to a death sentence. very few get rescued.

I agree with trailblazer also! but all he has said is...

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

Small rats for snake under 3ft seems a bit much. I'll let more experienced keepers chime in though.

And who is talking about turning any snakes lose! I'll tell you! This is what makes these forums look bad... Just a bunch of options with no concept of what constructive criticism is... Once again I must apologize to the originator of the tread for getting off topic...

[trailblazer295]

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

If his dad is 10ft and mom 16ft it is realistic for him to reach somewhere in the middle to low end. Reduced feeding isn't going to stop that, it will only slow it down. If that's too big a snake for you that's fine giants aren't for everyone but maybe it's something best researched prior to purchase.

I also said.

Originally Posted by sattva

I agree with trailblazer also! but all he has said is...

And who is talking about turning any snakes lose! I'll tell you! This is what makes these forums look bad... Just a bunch of options with no concept of what constructive criticism is... Once again I must apologize to the originator of the tread for getting off topic...

[Tsubaki]

I have refrained a bit from responding here because I have not had time to write an elaborate response. I still don't really have time but I feel like trying to speak my mind anyway. Simply put, Reticulated pythons are not like most other pythons.. They do very well on large prey is my experience, better than on small meals more frequently though there is some variables I personally take into account. Trying to type out my feeding method, excuse any mistakes I'm very tired it's been a long day.

First of, my way of feeding retics differs a lot from the way i feed any other species, and i might have more ' rules / guidelines' than most people who just go on a steady interval so it is a bit more work, especially if you're not used to this kind of slow feeding and are new to the game... I always feed retics under a year old a meal that is 1,5x the girth of their body.. Then later once they are well established and gained some size, I change their feeding schedule depending on how they behave. It's not as easy to type out as I made this feeding schedule over the years and have adjusted it countless of times based on experiences.. But i will try anyway.
I feed them: 0-6 months once a week.
Then: 6-12 months once every 10 days.
12/15 months and up - once every 14 days if they forage- less if they do not.
After 12/15 months, it all depends on the animal, I slowly increase the time in between their meals all the way into adulthood (6 years+) to a couple of weeks, each of them having their own pace/rhythm. I barely ever weighed anything i feed to them, eyeing it is enough for me, Retics are quite forgiving when it comes to size and a little variance isn't bad. As soon as i see a yearling or older foraging, and it has been long enough since it had eaten last (Whichever minimum they have at that time, animal specific), i will defrost a fitting prey and feed them the day after. (With Foraging i mean Actively hunt around their enclosure for prey, not feeding response once bothered or exploring behaviour, there is quite a difference but it might take a while to see the difference) If i do not catch them foraging, i have a maximum amount of time before i will feed them (18 days for well established yearlings,). If the animal eats at the quickest intervals, they get a prey about the size of their girth, if they forage slower i feed 1,5x or thicker. This way the snake would get whatever way of feeding they preferred. Many of them rather ate rather often as babies, but some ate slowly.. My observing was that mainly animals over the age of 3 picked the wider spacing between meals. I never had a fat or skinny retic. In my personal opinion this is a pretty natural way of feeding, in the wild they go foraging when hungry unless food happens to walk into range They do not eat on a 100% fixed schedule, so i won't feed them on a 100% fixed schedule.. I have a few things i keep in mind with this schedule:
- I always feed at night, on feeding night any foraging behaviours of the ones that did not actively search earlier is ignored for that night (They smell food)
-Males get a bigger maximum amount of time in between feeding, and are fed slightly less in general after reaching 12months.
-In wintertime I let them space the minimum amount of time as well.
-Females i plan to breed get 1,5x sized prey at the quickest interval for a while.
-Fussy eaters i always offer at the minimum amount of time regardless of age until i consider them well established.
I don't have a little booklet to keep track of all these things any-more, as i no longer have 40+ adults.. I keep track of now i when they last ate, and the rest is done on autopilot.

Originally Posted by sattva

I am new at this also... ' ----' It almost creates no lump what so every...But then again I want my guy to stay as small as possible and still remain health... '---' I just don't want him out growing his cage faster then I can afford to graduate him to a larger and lager cage... I'm just not into stuffing him to see how big I can get him! I think it expensive, unhealthy and unnecessary. ' --' Yes, and I appreciate constructive criticism and I don't mean to be disrespectful here but I am a 65 year old man and i'll chain an elephant up in my snake room and take care of it if I want to...

I consider my method slow feeding, and i can really appreciate everyone that's not wanting to stuff their retics. However, i read through your posts several times and though the idea of slow feeding is great, i believe your method and reasoning is flawed. This topic is about a retics feeding schedule, so it is not that much off-topic. I'm not going to quote a ton of things, i think i have captured the basics of what i wanted to reply to.

It's very hard to visually tell if a retic is getting a bit underweight, especially with babies. They can look slim when they're having a length spurt and can look chubby when gaining some width. It all balances out in the end but you shouldn't just change your feeding rhythm based on that imo, especially not at that age. Every 10 days does not seem too little, i would not call that underfeeding that quickly. But it does seem like you're feeding him too small rats. I would feed larger prey that last him longer, rather than small rats more often, or maybe try what i do even.. Though I do not expect anyone to do that. A 5ft retic eating small rats sounds very off to me, if he is going to get big he will get big, you should not slow him down. And slow feeding to make him fit into an enclosure longer, just rubs me the wrong way. I never get a snake for which I do not have the future housing already planned.

It is not my snake, no we/I can not stop you from getting your elephant and chaining it up in your snake room. Age and gender is not important to me, i do not care if you are a 65 year old man or a 100 year old purple canary.. I care about the snakes, mainly retics, if i spot what i consider bad advice, especially being shared on a topic of someone asking advice.. I will engage in a discussion, as that's what forums are for. You yourself can take whichever advice you want, and try whichever method you want. But until you have established your method works (on multiple individuals), maybe reconsider dismissing other comments with an 'I can do what I want' reply. Because as you yourself said you are new to it. And my personal opinion of your method so far is non advisable as it is almost borderline stunting (Your current feeding isn't horrible, but combined with your reasoning being the definition of purposely stunting I call it ill advisable). If the animal is going to get big, it is going to get big. I personally consider my way fairly minimal, and yours would be below minimum.

Originally Posted by sattva

' ---' I can't get my guys to sit still in my lap, much less on a scale... I guess I could do a large tub and take a tare and all that but then I have to have a place to set this up... I don't know?

Easiest way imo is to get a hand luggage scale (one with the hook where you hang a bag underneath), put snake in bag and pick up bag. This will work at least until they grow past 15kg or 33lbs, which is how far my luggage scale goes anyway. After that there is no real reason to weigh them for me, unless I suspect an issue. but If you are curious, just hold them and stand on a human-scale and subtract your own weight .

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Feeding conservatively isn't bad, but feeding conservatively shouldn't be with a smaller end size in mind but a healthier, steadier growth rate to get to that point.

Exactly, well worded.

Originally Posted by sattva

Well here we go with the conflicting story's again... I thought if they were in to large of a cage they become insecure?

I have only seen one truly insecure retic in my life, most of my retics stopped using their hides once they passed the baby stage. Not every snake is the same, like already has been said.. It is not the size of the cage that bothers them (Nature is pretty big) It is the lack of cover that might bother them.

[bigsnakegirl785]

That's a pretty good schedule Tsubaki! I may have to copy and paste that into a permanent Word document for future use...for now I think I'm feeding River a little bit heavier than that, but I'm giving her large-ish meals every other week. I started out feeding biweekly then went to weekly when she didn't grow, and then went back to biweekly when she started eating large rats. She's now taking the jumbos I got from Perfect Prey with ease, but I feel they're a bit small, the largest one was 300 grams and Cloud's larges average about 275. She was actually losing weight when I had her on larges, went from almost 2,100 grams down to 1,900. She gains weight so quickly with her it doesn't matter if you weigh her empty or not, she'll be 100 grams heavier after she poops. lol So that was weird. Still feeding her every other week, just bumped her prey size. According to the breeder when I got her she was born October 2014 so that makes her 23 months old now. She doesn't really forage much, and the last time I tried to feed her she showed almost no interest in her favorite meal - rabbits. Think I should probably step her down to something like 3 weeks?

[sattva]

Thanks Tsubaki... Just for you people who don't, This is what constructive criticism looks like... It's suppose to be helpful not judgmental...
Anyway my little guy is 1 year 4 months... I tried backing him off to once every 10 days but he was getting to skinny... I'll have to keep I eye out and see if I can tell if he is foraging or just out and about...

So by your schedule I should be giving George a larger meal less often?

[Tsubaki]

Just on a side note, on my schedule it takes an average of 6 years before a retic reaches its adult size.

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

' ---' I think I'm feeding River a little bit heavier than that, but I'm giving her large-ish meals every other week. '---' She's now taking the jumbos I got from Perfect Prey with ease, but I feel they're a bit small, the largest one was 300 grams '---' She doesn't really forage much, and the last time I tried to feed her she showed almost no interest in her favorite meal - rabbits. Think I should probably step her down to something like 3 weeks?

You could step down frequency and step up size of the meal, if you're willing to try my method you could try setting her to 2 weeks.. See if she forages, and if not feed her at 3 weeks regardless.. Saying this with a hint of caution, I can't exactly tell where she should be at 24 months because every snake is different and i don't 'know' her... But if i got an animal that size, that age, that is what i would try first. If you do try, i'd definitely advise to resume monitoring her weight as you do. Sounds about right though. I'm pretty sure large rats here are 350grams+ XL (or jumbo) rats are 500+

Originally Posted by sattva

Thanks Tsubaki... Just for you people who don't, This is what constructive criticism looks like... It's suppose to be helpful not judgmental...
Anyway my little guy is 1 year 4 months... I tried backing him off to once every 10 days but he was getting to skinny... I'll have to keep I eye out and see if I can tell if he is foraging or just out and about...

So by your schedule I should be giving George a larger meal less often?

I would personally definitely up his food size, then monitor his growth. Then see where it goes from there! I really would advise a luggage or any other type of scale, because like I said before a grow spurt in length can suddenly make a retic look thin!

[jay's reptiles]

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

Just on a side note, on my schedule it takes an average of 6 years before a retic reaches its adult size.



You could step down frequency and step up size of the meal, if you're willing to try my method you could try setting her to 2 weeks.. See if she forages, and if not feed her at 3 weeks regardless.. Saying this with a hint of caution, I can't exactly tell where she should be at 24 months because every snake is different and i don't 'know' her... But if i got an animal that size, that age, that is what i would try first. If you do try, i'd definitely advise to resume monitoring her weight as you do. Sounds about right though. I'm pretty sure large rats here are 350grams+ XL (or jumbo) rats are 500+
I would personally definitely up his food size, then monitor his growth. Then see where it goes from there! I really would advise a luggage or any other type of scale, because like I said before a grow spurt in length can suddenly make a retic look thin!

My girl is on medium rats. She gets 1 rat every 10 days. She is 5ft long.