New baby ribbon - Page 2

Doug 351 · 05-03-16, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWK

I agree with this completely, I have no issue with people keeping field collected animals as long as they are collected legally and responsibly. I have a number of field collected critters myself. That said, there is a legal issue in play here. It is illegal to release a captive animal under any circumstances. Once you take an animal home and introduce it to your collection, feed it, etc., you cannot release it (you have probably already passed this point with this animal really). There are reasons wildlife rehabbers have to be licensed. If you keep a wild animal it is your responsibility for the rest of its life. You can't even sell it without a permit (the permit is easy to get though, it's about 60 dollars). You can relocate wild snakes a short distance, again with a valid hunting license and on private property. But it is best not to move them more than a few hundred yards as they tend to have a small home range, and moving them outside of this home range is essentially a death sentence.

As for the specific ID of this animal, Redstripe Ribbon Snakes (Thamnophis proximus rubrilineatus) are only found on the Edwards Plateau in central Texas. If you are anywhere else in Texas it is not a T. p. rubrilineatus, no matter what color the dorsal stripe is.

Yeah....A few things....UMMMMN....Yeah, there are speed limits everywhere I go...am I they only one that ignores them occasionally?

And actually....It might stretch the "few hundred yards" at times , but I'm aware of that as well...but have to weigh the probably of it's survival based on habitat as well....but I always try to relocate as close as possible to the origin of capture.

That. is also...(if I'm not mistaken) a pretty general law...and reptiles seem to adapt back to the wild much better than mammals. Also...it really depends on whether you rehabilitate them , just grow them out a bit, or make pets out of them. But reptiles generally operate on a high level of natural instinct and seem IMO to adapt back to the wild pretty easily.

Now...if you take a wild mammal and raise it from a baby....whole different story. Not that I haven't....but they were baby possums...caught in my yard....released in my yard...and they get some "snacks" from me occasionally. Sooo....while I use the term "wild" loosely...those guys weren't exactly "in the wild"! BTW: I went through 3 or 4 baby possums....not that I didn't tame them down and get them to stop crapping or even defensively biting...(or threatening to)....the first 3 or so....grew testicles and started getting a little rowdy so I let them go. The fourth was finally a female....I grew her out to an adult...(fairly well litter trained) ...and well behaved on my lap....but frankly, my ratsnake enjoys that more than that possum did....so I let her go. I let the full grown Texas ratsnake go in my backyard.

In the case of baby snakes.....again....we're dealing with generalities.....a full grown (or half grown) snake has survived the high mortality rate of a baby...and established a hunting route and knowledge of it's area (be it suburban or natural) ...whereas a snake a few days old hasn't. Given a half grown snake can live for almost a year without food....I still believe that their chances are better with a little size on them...they're just going to elementary school a little later. But thanks for the heads up on the law.

As far as being restricted to the Edwards Plateau.....that is the home range of the red-sided ribbon...but they are not completely restricted there.

Which is why my curiosity about this little guy is peaked...they are not common in my area....however....10-15 years ago...neither were whitewing doves....and they are common as rats now. And there is precedence to them being spotted/captured in my area.

eminart · 05-03-16, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_G

This thread makes me think of something that doesn't happen up here in Canada...at least not often.

Why is the catching and keeping of wild reptiles and amphibians so prevalent in the U.S.? Why would someone want to catch and keep a species which is threatened/endangered/protected in some states and why is it being encouraged in this case specifically? It certainly can't aid conservation efforts, which is why so many claim to buy CB/CBB in the first place. Is this species one that is not commonly available in the pet trade there? We aren't allowed to keep native species without a permit up here and we can't have taken a wild specimen, so maybe that has a lot to do with why I feel like I am missing something? Can someone rationalize this a bit for me? :/

I think there's a lot of overreaction to field collecting. As long as it is done in sustainable numbers, there's no issue. Obviously endangered or threatened animals shouldn't be collected. But, a few people taking an occasional, non-threatened snake is no different than it being eaten by a predator. Those losses are built into how nature handles animal population. It has no affect on stable population numbers. .

That said, I don't condone rampant collecting either.

Doug 351 · 05-03-16, 11:35 PM

Yeah...I agree...but I'm not even doing that. I'm just catching critters in my backyard that don't. have all that good a chance of survival anyway...and trying to give them a "leg up".

Funny how people online want to type in a few words and think it makes a difference. I'm telling you...it's not me....or anyone like me keeping a few individuals (whether released or not) that has a big impact on the population.

It's the 100 other people that think "the only good snake is a dead snake " and kill every one they see...that do the most damage. I mentioned that I have went out among the masses with Oscar to try and educate those people about the truth about snakes....and I KNOW I've made a difference....people have come to get me to take snakes out of their yards...whereas if I (and Oscar) hadn't educated them would have simply killed them...and they don't know or don't care about endangered species. Even after seeing Oscar..they still can't tell a ratsnake from a rattlesnake....but they knew I could...and came and got me.

Soooo...if you REALLY care about the "wild" snake population....get out and educate the indiscriminate snake killers...instead of preaching on a snake forum. I also mentioned the nature center and a snake I contributed for exhibition....again...that snake educated a lot of visitors at that nature center....and it might have saved a few kings from being mindlessly slaughtered or misidentified as a venomous snake.

You can't save every snake, you can't change every mind....but you can make a much bigger difference in the real world than talking to people here...(who are probably already snake lovers anyway! )

Albert Clark · 05-04-16, 07:29 AM

Thanks Doug for all your perspectives and insight. I hope i was a little bit of help. I do have a conviction about wild caughts but that is my personal feelings. What people care to do and not do is really out of my control. I will continue to try and help with my limited knowledge and experience, to disseminate information that i think is helpful. It's a thin line between an opinion and a option even though they both start with the letters "o" and "p". Thanks for all the education you have imparted to those snake haters. If you do get the feeling to "dispatch" any of those water snakes near your pond try to relocate them instead. Lol.

**Andy_G** · 05-04-16, 07:31 AM

Really liking where this went. I was really much more geared toward understanding why this happens so very often there, and if it were all situations like this, it sure would be nice.

Doug 351 · 05-06-16, 09:07 PM

BTW: This is the baby Texas ratsnake.....I just love these little guys! I wish they would keep this coloration and markings their whole lives!

Doug 351 · 05-06-16, 09:28 PM

And here's Oscar....she just ate 3 mice and a baby chicken....but APPARENTLY, she's still hungry! Ratsnakes are chowhounds!

Oh yeah, that old tennis shoe is her favorite hide!

Albert Clark · 05-07-16, 01:58 AM

Nice. Good job.

Doug 351 · 05-09-16, 12:00 AM

Well ....took the little ribbon out for a few minutes. I'm now pretty sure it is a Western Ribbon

Much easier to handle and tamed down now....Still wants to musk a little...but no biting and settles down pretty quickly, and becomes a little sweetheart.

Seems very well acclimated now....so...I'm going to try feeding tomorrow.

BTW: My silly red-eared slider turtle cracked me up this morning! He's gotten big enough he can just stand up on his back legs, stretch his neck...and grab a dried shrimp..so...I thought I'd see if he could grab one through the hardware cloth top...(he used to have to kinda snatch them out of my fingers while swimming...(something I had him doing a week after I caught him...)..he was stretching up to get his treat....and fell over BACKWARDS! ...Anyway...everybody's fine here....

Doug 351 · 05-13-16, 04:08 PM

Just a quick update..gave the little booger a bowl of tadpoles and small mosquito fish. The larger mosquito fish are missing....it's a shallow bowl and they may have jumped out....One things for sure...the tadpoles can't...so...we'll see.

Doug 351 · 06-06-16, 01:14 PM

Just an update : Remington is doing just fine. Still not sure if he's gonna be a permanent resident or not...could go either way...since he is such a common snake...It can go either way.

Anyway...he seems to be a happy camper...and eating just fine.

Ohhh..and there's there this: found in my kitchen.....SOOOOOOO....Happy to see this guy....hopefully making a comeback around my property....(American quarter for scale.)

Albert Clark · 06-07-16, 07:20 AM

Thanks... Nice update.

Doug 351 · 06-07-16, 03:11 PM

Well..another update on Remington...the little ribbon..

I caught some more small mosquito fish last night...went to take the lid off his Critter Keeper and pushed the mason jar lid I had glued on to seal the water bottle hole off..(used to have mice in there at one time.)

Anyway, I just put it on top and stretched some electrical tape across it. Well, this morning, one side of the electrical tape had pulled loose and pulled the lid out of the way. Naturally, I immediately thought: "Oh well..he's history! " Nope...he's still there..(but all the mosquito fish are gone). Right now, he's got his chin on the edge of his water bowl, looking at me. Wonder what he wants?

BTW: Vin Diesel, my red eared slider got a treat last night...I was eating shrimp cocktail I made...so I gave him some pieces of shrimp to pluck from my fingers. I also gave him some dried shrimp...(his usual favorite treat.) Well, he dropped the dried shrimp...(not an unusual occurrence, because he's really squeamish about maybe accidentally nipping my fingers and the shrimp are small....so he doesn't bite down very hard...) but he'll go back and pick them up off the bottom of the aquarium and eat them. This morning...they were still there...and he didn't show much enthusiasm for his turtle food! Oh...how quickly they get spoiled! I guess he thinks he thinks he's gonna get those cooked shrimp all the time now.

Ummmm.....no!