Could get one of those hybrid pythons (carpet X ball) - Page 2

**Aaron_S** · 03-26-16, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

I've seen a few really wild looking colubrid hybrids, but in general the pythons aren't as widely divergent in appearance. I've seen a number of carpet/GTP hybrids, not so many carpet/BP crosses, but haven't seen anything that really made me say "I WANT that one..." They're pet snakes, as far as I see no different than crossing aquarium fish to produce different results. If that's what you like, what's the harm in breeding or keeping them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickT

no its exactly the same. i dont see the difference.

I see the difference.

Many of keepers of fish only keep a few fish. They don't breed them and most fish species are tougher to breed than common python species.

That's the difference. Hybrid fish never really make it into breeding populations unless a breeder does it. Also, most breeders of fish I know of don't buy from random people. They get great stock and wild caught fish or farmed fish are way easier to come by.

In snakes, anyone and everyone produces snakes and lots of people pass along mutts as pure breds. Creating issues, and then some random guy who thinks he's a breeder will buy from less than ideal people and muddle up their "pure" lines too.

This was a huge issue 15 years ago. People bought a pure diamond python and bred it to a few $200 jungle carpet females and sold "pure diamonds".

That is the difference.

I personally don't care if people keep them as pets it's just shady when the crosses are less than easy to tell from a normal OR that the hybrid is then passed along as a "morph" of one of the parent species.

sirtalis · 03-26-16, 02:10 PM

Some ball hybrids could be passed as morphs, An example would be- breeder- "I just imported these new morphs from (wherever), he then sells them as a new morphs or even breeds them to more balls and then you got a similar (but worse) situation to the carpet/diamond issue

RAD House · 03-26-16, 03:03 PM

You could make this argument with some colubrid hybrids, and maybe some python hybrids but certainly not ball python hybrids. Ball pythons are pretty unique in the python world when you look at size, shape, and pattern. Comparing any ball python with a hybrid you see glaring differences right away. Truth be told if you are any sort of breeder worth a dime you should be able to make these distinctions, and further know the source where you are getting your animal if it is unfamiliar morph. I also feel that with so many great morphs in the ball python world to dupe people is just not worth the trouble. Your assumption about breeding pythons is really easy does not agree with anything I have read about creating hybrids. It generally takes some sort of trickery that not every jo shmoe is capable of.

I realize not everyone is for hybrids but I don't understand where that translate to people pushing their opinions on someone who is interested in an animal, fully aware of its background.

**Aaron_S** · 03-26-16, 05:01 PM

None of what I said was specific to ball pythons.

As well have you seen jungle retics? 75/25 burm splits? Or vice versa? They could be and have been passed as morphs as the 75 parent. Some species are easy and some are not. Carpets probably the worst.

As I said though I don't personally care if people get pets. Have at it. Just like with fish. The hobbyist can enjoy just fine the hybrids.

I simply don't trust crappy breeders in snakes haha. (Why I don't buy from just anyone)

sirtalis · 03-26-16, 05:04 PM

I have... they have a cool pattern but something about them just seems off

**EL Ziggy** · 03-26-16, 05:08 PM

I see both sides of this argument and I'm still on the fence. I'm really more concerned with carpets. I appreciate the pure specimens. Years of selective breeding have gone into refining certain traits and producing high quality animals. I also love the look of a lot of hybrids, especially the diamond/jungle crosses. I agree with Aaron. They're cool to own as pets but the issues come when they're misrepresented and and end up muddying the pure lines.

PatrickT · 03-27-16, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I see the difference.

Many of keepers of fish only keep a few fish. They don't breed them and most fish species are tougher to breed than common python species.

That's the difference. Hybrid fish never really make it into breeding populations unless a breeder does it. Also, most breeders of fish I know of don't buy from random people. They get great stock and wild caught fish or farmed fish are way easier to come by.

In snakes, anyone and everyone produces snakes and lots of people pass along mutts as pure breds. Creating issues, and then some random guy who thinks he's a breeder will buy from less than ideal people and muddle up their "pure" lines too.

This was a huge issue 15 years ago. People bought a pure diamond python and bred it to a few $200 jungle carpet females and sold "pure diamonds".

That is the difference.

I personally don't care if people keep them as pets it's just shady when the crosses are less than easy to tell from a normal OR that the hybrid is then passed along as a "morph" of one of the parent species.

nonsense argument

its exactly the same with reptiles and fish. Some try panicly to hold the various mouthbreeding betta seperated. others hybridze them. Same goes on with various cichlids and L-cat fish.

sirtalis · 03-27-16, 11:53 AM

I kinda see it as a problem, I mean what if you want a pure diamond python or a certain boa locality but its been tainted, I would be pissed if I paid x$ for a diamond but I learned it was a cross and my breeding plans would be screwed

**EL Ziggy** · 03-27-16, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirtalis

I kinda see it as a problem, I mean what if you want a pure diamond python or a certain boa locality but its been tainted, I would be pissed if I paid x$ for a diamond but I learned it was a cross and my breeding plans would be screwed

Exactly. That's not fair and sadly there are too many opportunities for misrepresentation as these hybrids change hands. One person is honest and upfront and the next may not be.

RAD House · 03-27-16, 12:55 PM

These are just one of the long list of reasons that you should know who you are buying from. There is an endless list of reasons people can and do lie to make money in this industry. In my opinion, even though a big deal is made about it, hybrids pose little if any threat to this industry.

KrokadilyanGuy3 · 03-27-16, 01:36 PM

I forgot about Ball crosses.
I use to not be a fan, but I guess with everything they're doing to balls these days, I think they look pretty sweet vs some of the morphs they are passing off.

jpsteele80 · 03-29-16, 03:51 PM

Personally i am not for hybrids, as Albert mentioned a lot of them are sterile and will never breed or produce anything, this is why you don't see a lot of bat eaters out there which is a popular cross, out of 50 eggs you might get 3 to hatch. but out of the 2 i like the first one, good luck with what ever you decide to get.

As a side note id be curious as to what you pay for it.

BadCaseOfHerpes · 04-01-16, 09:36 PM

Number 2 would definitely be my pick. Both are amazing looking snakes though.