Snake Identification : Istanbul Turkey

[FWK]

Excellent, I'll post them this evening when I get home.

[alpha]

thanks for the great responses everyone ... unfortunately I do not have a better picture but here are some details I can share:-

-- I saw the snake in Istanbul ( Asian side , in the district of Tuzla )
-- The snake was about 12 inches in size
-- It was on a jogging track besides a small lake
-- The jogging track is surrounded by grass on both sides
-- The snake was stationary and moved very little when touched it with a stick. When I moved away from it, it moved and slithered back into the grass
-- The next day I saw another snake on the same place. It was black and shiny and moved very fast. Could not get a picture. I am sharing this information, because it seems there are a lot of snakes in the area

[PatrickT]

Originally Posted by alpha

thanks for the great responses everyone ... unfortunately I do not have a better picture but here are some details I can share:-

-- I saw the snake in Istanbul ( Asian side , in the district of Tuzla )
-- The snake was about 12 inches in size
-- It was on a jogging track besides a small lake
-- The jogging track is surrounded by grass on both sides
-- The snake was stationary and moved very little when touched it with a stick. When I moved away from it, it moved and slithered back into the grass
-- The next day I saw another snake on the same place. It was black and shiny and moved very fast. Could not get a picture. I am sharing this information, because it seems there are a lot of snakes in the area

Its definitly a natrix tesselata. She is harmless.

[CrotalusR#1]

Originally Posted by PatrickT

Ok i accept the challenge.

Care if I post some to?

[PatrickT]

Originally Posted by CrotalusR#1

Care if I post some to?

I'm pretty sure that i can deal with it. Our education system in germany is one of best in the world and i had Leistungskurs Biologie. So bring it.

[CrotalusR#1]

Originally Posted by FWK

I agree with you PatrickT, Natrix tessellata was my initial thought as well. But I have zero hands on experience with this species and if I'm not completely confident in my ID I'll say so. Given the low quality of the photo and my lack of familiarity with European species I was not confident. I also agree I need to learn more about European species, and I'm working on that. You have piqued my curiosity, if you'd care to demonstrate just how superior your ability to ID North American species is over my ability to ID European species I have some pictures for you to consider.

Great response to that person!!

I personally thought the way he responded was immature and arrogant.

[CrotalusR#1]

here ya go, no cheating!.... please use both common names and scientific names so every one here knows what your talking about.








there are 3 species in the last cage.

[FWK]

Originally Posted by alpha

thanks for the great responses everyone ... unfortunately I do not have a better picture but here are some details I can share:-

-- I saw the snake in Istanbul ( Asian side , in the district of Tuzla )
-- The snake was about 12 inches in size
-- It was on a jogging track besides a small lake
-- The jogging track is surrounded by grass on both sides
-- The snake was stationary and moved very little when touched it with a stick. When I moved away from it, it moved and slithered back into the grass
-- The next day I saw another snake on the same place. It was black and shiny and moved very fast. Could not get a picture. I am sharing this information, because it seems there are a lot of snakes in the area

The proximity to water supports the case for Natrix tessellata. And its size indicates that it is a juvenile, which explains its proportions. I agree again with PatrickT, I think it is a Natrix tessellata.

[PatrickT]

Originally Posted by CrotalusR#1

here ya go, no cheating!.... please use both common names and scientific names so every one here knows what your talking about.








there are 3 species in the last cage.

A bit rough to expect that i would know your local names. I´m german. How am i suppossed to know your slangwords? I also said Natrix tesselata and did not call it Würfelnatter, how we name it.

So i will stick to scientific names.

All species you show are Viper genera.

The bright coloration looks like they are pretty young.

I would say first is crotalus viridis.

I would say the second is also a Crotalus viridis, because it has exactly the same markings on its head.

Well the 3rd picture...all look like subspecies from one form. They look similar to the first two but the markings are slightly different. They dont look exactly like viridis so i suppose they are crotalus oreganus. They are the closest to viridis.

[CrotalusR#1]

Originally Posted by PatrickT

A bit rough to expect that i would know your local names. I´m german. How am i suppossed to know your slangwords? I also said Natrix tesselata and did not call it Würfelnatter, how we name it.

So i will stick to scientific names.

All species you show are Viper genera.

The bright coloration looks like they are pretty young.

I would say first is crotalus viridis.

I would say the second is also a Crotalus viridis, because it has exactly the same markings on its head.

Well the 3rd picture...all look like subspecies from one form. They look similar to the first two but the markings are slightly different. They dont look exactly like viridis so i suppose they are crotalus oreganus. They are the closest to viridis.

So you don't know what any of them are than? You have named the clades but not the actual subspecies names.. So if you where to guess you'd probably get one or 2 rite just because there are only so many in the clades but as of now you didn't get any of them rite. Also the one you said is young is a full grown adult that has produced, I understand the confusion tho with out knowing the species. So I believe you said you know yours crotalids? Seems like you could use some reaserch, As we all do but you mite want to rethink such bold statements before typing them.


There is no reason for an argument here like so many others, I posted a few animals, you didn't know them, that's that. There's no reason to contuie on between us. Thanks, take care.

[PatrickT]

Originally Posted by CrotalusR#1

So you don't know what any of them are than? You have named the clades but not the actual subspecies names.. So if you where to guess you'd probably get one or 2 rite just because there are only so many in the clades but as of now you didn't get any of them rite. Also the one you said is young is a full grown adult that has produced, I understand the confusion tho with out knowing the species. So I believe you said you know yours crotalids? Seems like you could use some reaserch, As we all do but you mite want to rethink such bold statements before typing them. Thanks, take care.

Looks like you must take a basic lesson in cladistic. I did not name the clade only. I named the specific species. The clade would be if i only said Crotalus. I can´t break it down to the sub species, so what?

You guys labelled a totally harmless natrix a viper. And you seriously attack me because i can name a snake from another continent only down to its species? Don´t get me wrong...but you were not even able to distinguish a natrix tesselata from a whipsnake.

I would understand your personal rant if i identified your snakes as thamnophis...that would be as far away from the real thing as you were.

But no hard feelings comrade. Are those yours? They look nice. I would not keep poison snakes but i like to watch them.

[alpha]

thanks for the identification everyone !

[CrotalusR#1]

Looks like you must take a basic lesson in cladistic. I did not name the clade only. I named the specific species. The clade would be if i only said Crotalus. I can´t break it down to the sub species, so what?

Wrong , Crotalus is the genus and the clade would be oreganus.


Again, the picture that dude posted was extremely out of focus and far way. A big difference between me and you on this forum is I never claimed to know a ton about snakes in Europe as you did in the North America ... All I said on that page was that it wasn't a viper, I suggested possible a whip snake, never said that's what it was.... Also it appears that you think just because it's a subspecies it doesn't matter which is definitely incorrect. Just naming the clade is pointless.


Yes the snakes are in my personal collection, and I agree no hard feelings, I look forward to future conversations and abates, hopefully no arguments

Best regards.
CrotalusR#1!

[RAD House]

Crotalus the Germ is correct the taxonomic grouping goes genus then species. A clade is a group of animals that share an ancestrial species.

[PatrickT]

Of course i'm right. But i dont want argue about this.