Dante, a super friendly snake - Page 2

**Aaron_S** · 04-29-15, 10:01 AM

Here is my non-moderator post. This is me. I have my own opinions just the same as I did before I became a moderator and this is what I would say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sophiedufort

I keep the Brazilian rainbow boas in the same enclosure, because they are inseparable. I have a separate thread with more pictures and details about all my snakes, it is in General Discussions I think, it is called 'All my snakes'. Quite a few members commented on that thread that it is really bad to house the snakes together, but I don't see it that way. These two will not separate. When they sleep in the hide, they do it coiled one around another, not one on top of each other. It is not dominance, it is bonding.

Dominance doesn't have to be "one top of the other". It's simple competing for the same security/heat. This is evident by coiling around one another. Snakes don't bond. They simply don't. They are solitary creatures and would never do this in the wild so I don't see millions of years of evolution somehow undone in your house.

How I know they are competing and not bonding is because you haven't supplied the appropriate set up. You mention in the other thread that you have 1 hide on the cool and hot side. What happens when both need to be warm but want security? You only have given them one option which is to share. This is akin to me putting my snake in a fish tank and saying it loves it because he's swimming constantly. It has no other option.

Two hides on each should be supplied that have the same temperatures/humidity and they should be exactly the same so they offer the same security. This sounds silly to some however it isn't. If they aren't identical then they will still compete over the BEST security/environment.

Quote:

I am yet to see that snakes get stressed as a result of spending time together, or with us. They are calm, don't jerk away when touched by another snake or by my husband and I, to the contrary they seek company. A stressed snake would be agitated, grumpy, aggressive.

You are using human stress signs on your snakes. They are not one and the same. Stressed snakes are not "grumpy, agitated or aggressive" (no snake is ever aggressive). That is how a human would be. Snakes and reptiles in general exhibit stress by usually being complacent. Also, you've given these animals no other options. You interact with them on your schedule and how you want them to. You interpret their actions of simply moving around as "seeking you out" or "seeking out other snakes". They do not care for you and they only go to your husbands neck because it's the warmest place on our bodies they can get to. Most likely they feel insecure and need somewhere warm to spend all those hours you have them in unfavourable conditions.

You care for your animals and that's what matters. However I have made this post so that new people reading the forums can have two differing opinions and make up their mind on how they view things.

By the way, the best thing about science is that it's still right even if you don't believe it.

RAD House · 04-29-15, 11:03 AM

Aaron science is the best guess we can make with the information that we have. In fact it is proven wrong all the time.

**Aaron_S** · 04-29-15, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

Aaron science is the best guess we can make with the information that we have. In fact it is proven wrong all the time.

And that's the beauty of science. It can be proven wrong but until that time it's still right.

By the way, that was a quote from Neil Degrasse Tyson.

FWK · 04-29-15, 11:07 AM

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what is going on here. It seems that issues such as these may only be talked about if you are interested in talking about them Aaron? Or is it that we are not allowed to talk about them at all as opinions other than yours are invalid in your eyes? You keep going on about how you are not interested in discussion on these topics then you post on them yourself so that new people on the forum can see your opinions above all others. Just trying to be clear on your intentions here.

elkied243 · 04-29-15, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWK

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what is going on here. It seems that issues such as these may only be talked about if you are interested in talking about them Aaron? Or is it that we are not allowed to talk about them at all as opinions other than yours are invalid in your eyes? You keep going on about how you are not interested in discussion on these topics then you post on them yourself so that new people on the forum can see your opinions above all others. Just trying to be clear on your intentions here.

I think Aaron is trying to give husbandry advice, not simply state his opinion. 99% of the time you hear that it is not okay to house snakes together and I believe he was making sure that people new to snakes don't try to throw their collection all in one tank and that they understood that Sophie's success with this communal husbandry is not something to be expected of all snakes. That's what I got out of his post anyway.

**lady_bug87** · 04-29-15, 11:23 AM

It's NOT ok to house them together. It's NOT ok to let established animals come into contact (same gloves, unwashed hands between individuals, same unsterilized equipment between individuals, New and old in the same room etc. ) with new individuals. It's NOT ok to not lock down your collection after a suspected IBD death. It's NOT ok to not investigate suspected IBD deaths.

FWK - Say what you want about Aaron being a mod. Go ahead. It doesn't change the knowledge and experience he has. He's still a member regardless of mod status and he can be reported like anyone else.

If you have a problem, take it up with admin. Stop whining.

**Aaron_S** · 04-29-15, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWK

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what is going on here. It seems that issues such as these may only be talked about if you are interested in talking about them Aaron? Or is it that we are not allowed to talk about them at all as opinions other than yours are invalid in your eyes? You keep going on about how you are not interested in discussion on these topics then you post on them yourself so that new people on the forum can see your opinions above all others. Just trying to be clear on your intentions here.

That's my mistake. I forgot to remove my earlier post. Thanks for calling me on it.

I wasn't intending to say I'm better or for others to view my opinion over anyone else's.

eminart · 04-29-15, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I wasn't intending to say I'm better or for others to view my opinion over anyone else's.

Don't sell yourself short. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but not all opinions are equal and they don't have to be treated as such.

FWK · 04-29-15, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

FWK - Say what you want about Aaron being a mod. Go ahead. It doesn't change the knowledge and experience he has. He's still a member regardless of mod status and he can be reported like anyone else.

If you have a problem, take it up with admin. Stop whining.

I was not questioning his knowledge or experience. I really couldn't agree more with his post here, down to the letter. My issue is his repeated attempts to inhibit discussion on topics such as this simply because he doesn't feel like we need to be talking about them. I far as I can tell there are no longer any active admins on this site or I assure you I would have already followed those channels.

PatrickT · 04-29-15, 01:06 PM

Je looks awesome!

**Aaron_S** · 04-29-15, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWK

I was not questioning his knowledge or experience. I really couldn't agree more with his post here, down to the letter. My issue is his repeated attempts to inhibit discussion on topics such as this simply because he doesn't feel like we need to be talking about them. I far as I can tell there are no longer any active admins on this site or I assure you I would have already followed those channels.

WRONG! Contact "Boots". He owns the entire site and I frequently speak with him through the various channels. He may not post but doesn't mean he isn't active.

For the record, I'm quick to dismiss most discussion regarding such topics because there's less discussion and more attacking. Anyone can discuss but try to keep actual attacks out of it. I know it's a fine line at times however I know it can be done.

I can point to another thread where I had to clean it up and the original discussion spun something that became more informative.

Snakesitter · 04-29-15, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkied243

I think Aaron is trying to give husbandry advice, not simply state his opinion. 99% of the time you hear that it is not okay to house snakes together and I believe he was making sure that people new to snakes don't try to throw their collection all in one tank and that they understood that Sophie's success with this communal husbandry is not something to be expected of all snakes. That's what I got out of his post anyway.

Agreed....

Snakesitter · 04-29-15, 02:00 PM

BTW, if a snake passes with any suspicion of IBD, I would always urge a necropsy to be sure. There are only a few labs with the expertise to be certain, however. ZooPath is one. I've seen misdiagnoses from lesser labs. Hopefully your death was not due to this disease.

If it *is* IBD, unless your quarantine has been immaculate (bleach-level quarantine with no contact with existing animals, even via tools and clothes, and preferably kept in a different room) it is best practice to close your collection, wait, and confirm. This takes time, as IBD can lay dormant for years. Thankfully, there is a newer blood test that the University of Florida offers that can help check for the disease's presence, but it is only effective if enough time has passes since (possible) exposure.

Sorry to go off topic, but this is partly to educate later readers....

**lady_bug87** · 04-29-15, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakesitter

BTW, if a snake passes with any suspicion of IBD, I would always urge a necropsy to be sure. There are only a few labs with the expertise to be certain, however. ZooPath is one. I've seen misdiagnoses from lesser labs. Hopefully your death was not due to this disease.

If it *is* IBD, unless your quarantine has been immaculate (bleach-level quarantine with no contact with existing animals, even via tools and clothes, and preferably kept in a different room) it is best practice to close your collection, wait, and confirm. This takes time, as IBD can lay dormant for years. Thankfully, there is a newer blood test that the University of Florida offers that can help check for the disease's presence, but it is only effective if enough time has passes since (possible) exposure.

Sorry to go off topic, but this is partly to educate later readers....

Exactly my point. Thank you.

**lady_bug87** · 04-29-15, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWK

I was not questioning his knowledge or experience. I really couldn't agree more with his post here, down to the letter. My issue is his repeated attempts to inhibit discussion on topics such as this simply because he doesn't feel like we need to be talking about them. I far as I can tell there are no longer any active admins on this site or I assure you I would have already followed those channels.

This is a lame excuse. You know there are other MODs that are active and Aaron even said to contact Jason (Boots)

Maybe you should throw your hat in the MOD ring since you're obviously a better choice /sarcasm.