Keeping Copperheads

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Derek1

Guarantee I wouldn't be careless enough to get bit.

Famous last words.

That's the arrogance that tells me you don't have the maturity to own one.

Those are harsh words and you'll get your knickers in a knot and say "yeah well I don't have to listen to you!" You'd be correct. You don't have to listen.

I just hope you seriously think about it. I doubt it though considering in one post you said "I'm just doing research" then later on say "I won't pass on a free one though."

[54bogger]

WOW! you really like to complain, the man doesn't even have a venomous snake much less posted a pic and your jumping on him! EH.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by 54bogger

WOW! you really like to complain, the man doesn't even have a venomous snake much less posted a pic and your jumping on him! EH.

He's not complaining, he's advising.

[millertime89]

Originally Posted by kwhitlock

Ever heard of the saying for motorcycle enthusiasts? There's only 2 kinds of riders. Ones that have been down and ones that have yet to go down.

Yup, unfortunately it's true too.

I'm a big fan of copperheads. If it were legal to own them here I would give serious consideration to it. I think they're gorgeous and are easily my favorite hot that's native to the US.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by 54bogger

WOW! you really like to complain, the man doesn't even have a venomous snake much less posted a pic and your jumping on him! EH.

As stated it's advice. It's not a complaint.

Stop judging me! I can do what I want from my igloo!

[Derek1]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Famous last words.

That's the arrogance that tells me you don't have the maturity to own one.

Those are harsh words and you'll get your knickers in a knot and say "yeah well I don't have to listen to you!" You'd be correct. You don't have to listen.

I just hope you seriously think about it. I doubt it though considering in one post you said "I'm just doing research" then later on say "I won't pass on a free one though."

I won't get my knickers in a knot. I like the feedback. I don't pass on anything free.

[pet_snake_78]

Copperheads are cool snakes. I've never kept any venomous snake but I've encountered dozens while field herping. As long as you do not free handle, there is no reason I see for issues. When first uncovered, they are quite taken by surprise and you have plenty of time to move them with appropriate tools. Just keep your body parts safe.

[Will0W783]

I figured I'd chime in here, now that the freehandling storm is over (good riddance to those two....).

I had a pair of gorgeous Southern copperheads for quite some time, until PA changed the way they enforced their native species laws to outlaw ALL species of coppers, even non-native ones. My pair went to a good friend with the native species permits to keep them.

I will say, copperheads generally do not give a fatal bite, and they are very hardy snakes. In those regards, they are "good" first venomous. However, I found them to be extremely nervous, jumpy, flighty snakes. Also, although they will not kill you, their bites can cause significant necrosis, nerve damage, muscle wasting and arthritis-like joint maladies. A copperhead bite is NOT the insignificant, don't-worry-about-it event that many make it out to be.
I personally would not recommend them as a first hot, for several reasons. One, the venom has a better-than-not chance of causing lasting, if not permanent, damage. Two, they are generally fast and nervous, so they are apt to have at you. Three, CroFab is insanely expensive, far more so than the foreign antivenins.

If this is THE species you're intent on getting as a first, I won't discourage you. I just urge you to do enough research and hook training that you are well-prepared to handle a spastic, strong snake fighting to get away from you.

I personally think white-lipped tree vipers, eyelash vipers, or coral cobras make better early venomous species. The white-lippeds and coral cobras have very mild venom, and the eyelash are easy to hook, although they do have a significant bite.

As for the debate about getting bitten, there is NO sure way to say you will never get bitten. Even with proper training, experience, and safety gear things can happen. I personally know people who have worked with hots for decades and never taken a bite, but I also know many who are missing parts of fingers, have gorped up hands, etc, from multiple bites.

My story- I have been working with venomous snakes for 4.5 years now. I have kept snakes for over 9 years. I worked my way up slowly, from pythons and boas, to fast angry colubrids, to arboreal pythons/boas, to "warm" rear-fanged species, and finally to arboreal venomous, before branching out to some terrestrial hots.
I use, and very heavily recommend, Hex-Armor Hercules NSR gloves. These are the "Venom Defender" gloves, but much less expensive because they are marketed to medical personnel who deal with sharps. You will need to buy the gloves (~ $130-150) plus arm guard gauntlets (~$30-50) because they stopped manufacturing the long gauntlet gloves I own. Now the long version gloves are only sold as Venom Defenders for a hefty markup.

I owned a yearling white-lipped tree viper female. She was sold to me as eating, and with the size on her, I knew she was. She was about as thick as a ring finger, and 8-10 inches long. She would NOT eat for me. No matter what I did- live ,fresh killed, f/t, mouse, gecko, rat parts, tease feed....etc. After three and a half months, she was losing weight and not looking so swift, so in desperation I decided to assist feed her. I could not wear my HexArmor gloves with her because she was too small. The first two times went fine. The third time, she went ballistic, and shot out of her cage the moment I opened the lid. She got on the floor and I quickly pinned her head with a hook. I reached down very quickly to get her behind the jaws, but somehow she manged to get her head turned just enough to nail me on the side of my index finger. I didn't even feel it- I just saw it happen. I tossed her back in her cage and squeezed my finger- two litter blood spots. I was so scared. I called a friend who had experience with their venom and fortunately I had an easy time of it. My fingertip, just the first knuckle, started swelling after an hour and swelled about twice its normal size. The swelling went down after 3 hours and was completely gone in 5. I had a tiny, hard, prickly lump where her fang went in for about 3 weeks, but no lasting damage. I now own thick leather gardening gloves for dealing with any babies I might need to forcefeed.

Point is- I'm VERY careful. I have had 2 years of mentorship. I own all the right safety equipment, and use it whenever I can to the greatest extent that I can. I was still bitten. Fortunately it was a baby of a very mild species. I was extremely lucky and I pray that this is the only bite experience I will ever have.

Confidence and calmness are key when working safely with venomous, but it's a very fine line between confidence and cockiness. Confidence keeps you relaxed and helps you keep your snakes relaxed too. Cockiness makes you careless and will get you killed.

I hope this helps. Any questions you might have, feel free to PM/email me.

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by Will0W783

I figured I'd chime in here, now that the freehandling storm is over (good riddance to those two....).

I had a pair of gorgeous Southern copperheads for quite some time, until PA changed the way they enforced their native species laws to outlaw ALL species of coppers, even non-native ones. My pair went to a good friend with the native species permits to keep them.

I will say, copperheads generally do not give a fatal bite, and they are very hardy snakes. In those regards, they are "good" first venomous. However, I found them to be extremely nervous, jumpy, flighty snakes. Also, although they will not kill you, their bites can cause significant necrosis, nerve damage, muscle wasting and arthritis-like joint maladies. A copperhead bite is NOT the insignificant, don't-worry-about-it event that many make it out to be.
I personally would not recommend them as a first hot, for several reasons. One, the venom has a better-than-not chance of causing lasting, if not permanent, damage. Two, they are generally fast and nervous, so they are apt to have at you. Three, CroFab is insanely expensive, far more so than the foreign antivenins.

If this is THE species you're intent on getting as a first, I won't discourage you. I just urge you to do enough research and hook training that you are well-prepared to handle a spastic, strong snake fighting to get away from you.

I personally think white-lipped tree vipers, eyelash vipers, or coral cobras make better early venomous species. The white-lippeds and coral cobras have very mild venom, and the eyelash are easy to hook, although they do have a significant bite.

As for the debate about getting bitten, there is NO sure way to say you will never get bitten. Even with proper training, experience, and safety gear things can happen. I personally know people who have worked with hots for decades and never taken a bite, but I also know many who are missing parts of fingers, have gorped up hands, etc, from multiple bites.

My story- I have been working with venomous snakes for 4.5 years now. I have kept snakes for over 9 years. I worked my way up slowly, from pythons and boas, to fast angry colubrids, to arboreal pythons/boas, to "warm" rear-fanged species, and finally to arboreal venomous, before branching out to some terrestrial hots.
I use, and very heavily recommend, Hex-Armor Hercules NSR gloves. These are the "Venom Defender" gloves, but much less expensive because they are marketed to medical personnel who deal with sharps. You will need to buy the gloves (~ $130-150) plus arm guard gauntlets (~$30-50) because they stopped manufacturing the long gauntlet gloves I own. Now the long version gloves are only sold as Venom Defenders for a hefty markup.

I owned a yearling white-lipped tree viper female. She was sold to me as eating, and with the size on her, I knew she was. She was about as thick as a ring finger, and 8-10 inches long. She would NOT eat for me. No matter what I did- live ,fresh killed, f/t, mouse, gecko, rat parts, tease feed....etc. After three and a half months, she was losing weight and not looking so swift, so in desperation I decided to assist feed her. I could not wear my HexArmor gloves with her because she was too small. The first two times went fine. The third time, she went ballistic, and shot out of her cage the moment I opened the lid. She got on the floor and I quickly pinned her head with a hook. I reached down very quickly to get her behind the jaws, but somehow she manged to get her head turned just enough to nail me on the side of my index finger. I didn't even feel it- I just saw it happen. I tossed her back in her cage and squeezed my finger- two litter blood spots. I was so scared. I called a friend who had experience with their venom and fortunately I had an easy time of it. My fingertip, just the first knuckle, started swelling after an hour and swelled about twice its normal size. The swelling went down after 3 hours and was completely gone in 5. I had a tiny, hard, prickly lump where her fang went in for about 3 weeks, but no lasting damage. I now own thick leather gardening gloves for dealing with any babies I might need to forcefeed.

Point is- I'm VERY careful. I have had 2 years of mentorship. I own all the right safety equipment, and use it whenever I can to the greatest extent that I can. I was still bitten. Fortunately it was a baby of a very mild species. I was extremely lucky and I pray that this is the only bite experience I will ever have.

Confidence and calmness are key when working safely with venomous, but it's a very fine line between confidence and cockiness. Confidence keeps you relaxed and helps you keep your snakes relaxed too. Cockiness makes you careless and will get you killed.

I hope this helps. Any questions you might have, feel free to PM/email me.

Nice story and very appropriate. That is how I received my one and only venomous bite. I was trying to assist feed a Crotalus atrox and tried to short cut a safety procedure, when the snake was able to sink one of it's fangs into my thumb. My thumb is now permanently deformed from the damage. I now never short cut safety procedures and know a bite can happen to me.

[Akuma223]

What is your opinion on viperkeeper? Do you think he does a good job?

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by Akuma223

What is your opinion on viperkeeper? Do you think he does a good job?

That is Willow's Mentor. I have heard Kim say that he does things that he has told her not to do. He is experienced and does thing I would not do, but it works for him. Everyone has their own methods that work for them. Some people don't like the way I handle my snakes, and they have the right to their wrong opinion. LOL

No disrespect intended Kim.

[Will0W783]

I like viperkeeper very much. He's a knowledge guy; he does take some liberties I wouldn't but he also has decades more experience than I do. He did a wonderful job of honing my skills and teaching me, and for that I'll always be greatful.
I don't agree with everything he says/does, but I don't completely agree with pretty much anyone!

[Will0W783]

Jerry, I don't care how anyone handles their animals in their home. What I hate is when people parade dangerous techniques in public.

[kwhitlock]

Really glad you chimned in Willow, was waiting for you to post something on this! Great story and great info. Jerry as well, guys show the respect that you have to have for hots and the dangers that can come with it if you are not careful.

[Primal Rage]

I would go with a copperhead, a pygmy rattler, or my personal fav a coral cobra for a first hot. Here is some food for thought from keepers who specialize in hots.. VenomousReptiles.org Survey Home