Planning for the future - Page 2

franks · 08-02-14, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman

If you would life here in Germany, the answer for the minimum size would be 1 x 0.5 x 1 of the total length of an adult animal, so for a 6 ft cornsnake the dimensions should be 6 ft x 3 ft x 6 ft according to the official guidelines which were issued 1997 by the government in accordance with some animal rights groups and some reptile experts (among others).

Granted, the supposed dimensions are generous to say the least, On the other hand, in my experience an active snake like your cornsnake will be more active if it gets more room, in a small enclosure it will most probably only stay at the same place (where should it go to anyway), but in a larger enclosure it will move around, climb the branches up and down…

So in my opinion something like 5 x 2 x 4 would do fine (add another feed in depth if you can, your snake might feel more secure if it can stay away from you).

You have only one snake right now, a second when you get your ball python. Why do you want to keep them on minimum conditions? Why hide them? Go for a display enclosure, place it in your living room. Create something you really enjoy to watch – every time you see it it should make you smile. Not something barley adequate to just house your snake but something interesting to look at. Create a piece of a north American woodland or maybe a small section of a barn where your snake is a part of the whole picture. Be creative. If you do it right (and you have more than enough time to do it right and to save enough money to be able to do it) you don’t need your TV any longer and you have to use a big stick to get visitors back to your dinner table instead of watching your enclosure all the time.

Roman

Thank you Roman. Well said man. People put their snakes in enclosures where they cannot even fully stretch out, and shove large rodents on them so they "reach size" and people wonder why their snakes don't reach 10 years. I appreciate a voice for large enclosures. I wish that the practices breeders undergo to keep multiple snakes was not considered appropriate for the hobbiests.

nazanova · 08-02-14, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

Thank you Roman. Well said man. People put their snakes in enclosures where they cannot even fully stretch out, and shove large rodents on them so they "reach size" and people wonder why their snakes don't reach 10 years. I appreciate a voice for large enclosures. I wish that the practices breeders undergo to keep multiple snakes was not considered appropriate for the hobbiests.

I never knew hobbiests were so against methods of housing by breeders. All I want is the best care for my animals and if a big enclosure is what they need, that's what they are going to get. Thank you and thanks everyone for helping me see sense

franks · 08-02-14, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nazanova

I never knew hobbiests were so against methods of housing by breeders. All I want is the best care for my animals and if a big enclosure is what they need, that's what they are going to get. Thank you and thanks everyone for helping me see sense

They are not against those methods. Very very few keepers house their snakes in an enclosure that let's them fully stretch out. It is impractical for most. Snakes are hardy animals and are kept, grown, and bred in smaller enclosures. I am not saying that a snake cannot be kept healthy in these setups but I do personally feel that it is unnatural and I do genuinely wonder how healthy it is. I know many breeders that keep 8' carpet pythons in 4x2x2 enclosures that are healthy animals and over ten years old. But... I know many many more breeders and hobbiests alike that all have snakes between the ages of 1-6 yrs old. We keep snakes in shoe boxes and feed them large meals once a week- I do not feel that is great. I think our aim should be to replicate their environment in a way that improves their safety (there are no predators obviously) but allows them to act out their life and do snake things. Just my personal feelings: bottom line is I support the notion of one or two snakes kept in nice large natural enclosures over the concept of keeping a dozen in little plastic boxes. The problem is... as you will certainly find out... snakes are addicting man lol.

Mikoh4792 · 08-02-14, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

They are not against those methods. Very very few keepers house their snakes in an enclosure that let's them fully stretch out. It is impractical for most. Snakes are hardy animals and are kept, grown, and bred in smaller enclosures. I am not saying that a snake cannot be kept healthy in these setups but I do personally feel that it is unnatural and I do genuinely wonder how healthy it is. I know many breeders that keep 8' carpet pythons in 4x2x2 enclosures that are healthy animals and over ten years old. But... I know many many more breeders and hobbiests alike that all have snakes between the ages of 1-6 yrs old. We keep snakes in shoe boxes and feed them large meals once a week- I do not feel that is great. I think our aim should be to replicate their environment in a way that improves their safety (there are no predators obviously) but allows them to act out their life and do snake things. Just my personal feelings: bottom line is I support the notion of one or two snakes kept in nice large natural enclosures over the concept of keeping a dozen in little plastic boxes. The problem is... as you will certainly find out... snakes are addicting man lol.

100% agree

Quote:

The problem is... as you will certainly find out... snakes are addicting man lol

Therein lies the problem! lol

nazanova · 08-03-14, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

They are not against those methods. Very very few keepers house their snakes in an enclosure that let's them fully stretch out. It is impractical for most. Snakes are hardy animals and are kept, grown, and bred in smaller enclosures. I am not saying that a snake cannot be kept healthy in these setups but I do personally feel that it is unnatural and I do genuinely wonder how healthy it is. I know many breeders that keep 8' carpet pythons in 4x2x2 enclosures that are healthy animals and over ten years old. But... I know many many more breeders and hobbiests alike that all have snakes between the ages of 1-6 yrs old. We keep snakes in shoe boxes and feed them large meals once a week- I do not feel that is great. I think our aim should be to replicate their environment in a way that improves their safety (there are no predators obviously) but allows them to act out their life and do snake things. Just my personal feelings: bottom line is I support the notion of one or two snakes kept in nice large natural enclosures over the concept of keeping a dozen in little plastic boxes. The problem is... as you will certainly find out... snakes are addicting man lol.

Oh ok I understand now. The more you guys talk about it the more I'm fully against RUB boxes and such things and more for nice big enclosures with lots of room for movement (and lots of cover of course) and regarding the snake addiction comment.... Don't I know it! I'm already planning my next venture for the near future lol. I'm only really expecting to have 4 snakes of my life time so if that remains the case I will have 4 nice, well kept enclosures but if I decide I want more after those 4 (from what everyone's saying I most definitely will) then for space, money and maintenance reasons I'd have to get into the realms of rack systems. But anyways that's all in the distant future and thank you for your advice

franks · 08-03-14, 10:21 AM

Lol look at you go! You started off talking about 2 and already we are talking 4. It is a fun slide friend. Can't wait to see pictures of your snake and setup. If you decide to try to build something let me know- I'll try to help you.

nazanova · 08-03-14, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

Lol look at you go! You started off talking about 2 and already we are talking 4. It is a fun slide friend. Can't wait to see pictures of your snake and setup. If you decide to try to build something let me know- I'll try to help you.

Hahaha I've always wanted 4 at some point in my lifetime but I am starting to plan for my next one already lol the addiction is strong! When I get his adult enclosure I will no doubt be asking for a little bit of help and be posting pictures

I would love to build something but I'm useless at DIY lol but thank you for the offer

nazanova · 08-03-14, 11:18 AM

Thought I'd add a picture of Plutos current tank as I've just cleaned it out today while he ate. The left side is the hot side and the right is the cool side and I've just swapped his hides around.

franks · 08-03-14, 01:10 PM

Careful with that. I had a cornsnake escape from smaller vent holes than that. They can surprise you. Can you post a pic of your snake in relation to the critter - keeper top?

nazanova · 08-03-14, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

Careful with that. I had a cornsnake escape from smaller vent holes than that. They can surprise you. Can you post a pic of your snake in relation to the critter - keeper top?

Na there's no way he can get out of those holes, trust me he's tried lol. They look ALOT bigger in the pic, they are very thin holes really. Well he's just been fed today so I'll take a pic in the next 2 days or so once he's digested his food, by critter/keeper top do you mean like the little flap that opens on top of the tank?

franks · 08-03-14, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nazanova

Na there's no way he can get out of those holes, trust me he's tried lol. They look ALOT bigger in the pic, they are very thin holes really. Well he's just been fed today so I'll take a pic in the next 2 days or so once he's digested his food, by critter/keeper top do you mean like the little flap that opens on top of the tank?

Yeah- that's what we call them here in the US. You are the one with eyes on the snake so you are in the best position to judge.

nazanova · 08-03-14, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

Yeah- that's what we call them here in the US. You are the one with eyes on the snake so you are in the best position to judge.

Ok just making sure so I don't look like a fool when I take a picture of something else lol. I'll put up a pic in about 2 days