Help. California Kingsnake not growing. - Page 2

**EL Ziggy** · 07-17-14, 09:46 PM

What kind of substrate are you using btw?

barbicrash · 07-18-14, 03:02 PM

I use aspen. I read that pine is toxic to snakes.

I took two more photos of her on a standard sized hardback book so you could see her size relative to an object so you could compare. Based on these photos how undersized or underweight would you say she is. Btw, its been over 48 hrs and she still had the food lump so keep that in mind.

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**EL Ziggy** · 07-18-14, 08:41 PM

She's definitely a bit undersized but nothing that can't be corrected with larger and/or more frequent meals. If you've been feeding every 7-14 days you can increase that to every 6-7 days which is appropriate for a yearling king. Once she thickens up a bit move her up to the next largest prey size. Don't rush it or power feed her but give her heartier meals for a while. She should bulk up once you increase her food intake.

barbicrash · 07-18-14, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

She's definitely a bit undersized but nothing that can't be corrected with larger and/or more frequent meals. If you've been feeding every 7-14 days you can increase that to every 6-7 days which is appropriate for a yearling king. Once she thickens up a bit move her up to the next largest prey size. Don't rush it or power feed her but give her heartier meals for a while. She should bulk up once you increase her food intake.

Ok so she threw up the fuzzy which I'm not going to lie, really frustrated me. I don't know if its because it was too big or because I handled her this morning. I fed her in the morning on Wednesday and this morning I took her out only to take the two photos. She couldn't have been out of the cage more than two minutes if that. Sooooo I dunno, should I keep trying the fuzzies or should I do multiple pinkies. Shes never regurgitated her food before...

Edit: Btw, she still had a lump this morning so I'm assuming it was too big for her. I can't imagine my brief handling was the cause. This is her first fuzzie so maybe its too big? It did leave a pretty large lump.

**EL Ziggy** · 07-18-14, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbicrash

Ok so she threw up the fuzzy which I'm not going to lie, really frustrated me. I don't know if its because it was too big or because I handled her this morning. I fed her in the morning on Wednesday and this morning I took her out only to take the two photos. She couldn't have been out of the cage more than two minutes if that. Sooooo I dunno, should I keep trying the fuzzies or should I do multiple pinkies. Shes never regurgitated her food before...

Edit: Btw, she still had a lump this morning so I'm assuming it was too big for her. I can't imagine my brief handling was the cause. This is her first fuzzie so maybe its too big? It did leave a pretty large lump.

A regurge isn't good but a fuzzy definitely shouldn't be too big. It's possible that you stressed her a little by handling her too soon after her meal. More importantly, what are your temps like and do you have a thermostat to control your temps? I would wait 7-10 days before attempting to feed her again and wouldn't handle her at all until you get a couple of meals in her. A regurge is most often caused by stress, temps, or illness.

barbicrash · 07-18-14, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

A regurge isn't good but a fuzzy definitely shouldn't be too big. It's possible that you stressed her a little by handling her too soon after her meal. More importantly, what are your temps like and do you have a thermostat to control your temps? I would wait 7-10 days before attempting to feed her again and wouldn't handle her at all until you get a couple of meals in her. A regurge is most often caused by stress, temps, or illness.

Ok so when I do try and feed her again, should I try a fuzzy again or mulitple pinkies? As far as temperature, like I said, I live in LA and temperatures right now are 80 at the lowest and we have plenty of 90+ days. I have one of those Zilla thermostats, it came with the terrarium. I've heard they aren't super reliable but from what it says the temperature on the hot side is around 80-85, it rarely if ever drops below that. I have a light and then an under tank heater on the warm side as well. Its possible she's sick but as I said earlier, before I fed her she didn't seem sick at all. She was always moving and climbing, smelling things and she was alert. After she ate, she's been hiding for the last two days I'm assuming to digest. I took her out of thr cage to take the picture and she actually didn't freak out making it more confusing. My roommate took the pics, then I put her back. Took about 2 minutes. I was considering bringing her to the reptile shop because he is super knowledgeable, I think he may even be a herpetologist but I don't wanna put more stress on her. :-/

**EL Ziggy** · 07-18-14, 10:56 PM

Ok, do you have a thermostat which allows you to set the desired temperature or do you have a thermometer that just measures temps? There's a big difference. I live in GA and the outside temps are mid 80's-low 90's but with the AC on the temps in the tank are mid-high 70's on the cool side. My UTH is set at 94 which keeps my surface temps at 86ish on the warm side. You may also want to invest in a temp gun to accurately measure your temps throughout the enclosure. If your snake seems healthy and isn't losing any weight it should be ok. Double check your husbandry and if that's on point I would try feeding her again in 7-10 days. I wouldn't handle her at all during this waiting period. Some would even say wait 2 full weeks after a regurge to feed again. Best wishes bud and keep us posted.

barbicrash · 07-18-14, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Ok, do you have a thermostat which allows you to set the desired temperature or do you have a thermometer that just measures temps? There's a big difference. I live in GA and the outside temps are mid 80's-low 90's but with the AC on the temps in the tank are mid-high 70's on the cool side. My UTH is set at 94 which keeps my surface temps at 86ish on the warm side. You may also want to invest in a temp gun to accurately measure your temps throughout the enclosure. If your snake seems healthy and isn't losing any weight it should be ok. Double check your husbandry and if that's on point I would try feeding her again in 7-10 days. I wouldn't handle her at all during this waiting period. Some would even say wait 2 full weeks after a regurge to feed again. Best wishes bud and keep us posted.

Ok then no I don't have a thermostat, just a thermometer. I don't normally have the AC on in my room cause its broken but the fan works and I will have it on occasionally but her tank is across the room and not in direction of it. Whats strange is she rarely hangs out on the warm side. I'd say most of the time she's in her hide on the cool side even at night when the room temperature is much lower. My husbandry has been fairly consistent aside from the outside weather but I got her in the winter and she never threw up any pinkies. As far as losing weight, that I'm not sure of but I didn't notice any weight loss. Last time she ate was July 3rd so I'm a bit antsy for her to eat again but if its best to wait I will. When I do feed her again should I try for the fuzzy again?

**EL Ziggy** · 07-18-14, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbicrash

Ok then no I don't have a thermostat, just a thermometer. I don't normally have the AC on in my room cause its broken but the fan works and I will have it on occasionally but her tank is across the room and not in direction of it. Whats strange is she rarely hangs out on the warm side. I'd say most of the time she's in her hide on the cool side even at night when the room temperature is much lower. My husbandry has been fairly consistent aside from the outside weather but I got her in the winter and she never threw up any pinkies. As far as losing weight, that I'm not sure of but I didn't notice any weight loss. Last time she ate was July 3rd so I'm a bit antsy for her to eat again but if its best to wait I will. When I do feed her again should I try for the fuzzy again?

I would definitely get a thermostat for your uth and make sure your temps are spot on. That's going to be crucial, then give her at least a week before feeding her again. You can give her 1 or 2 smaller meals until the regurge issue is resolved then bump up the prey size again. As long as they're not losing weight two weeks is not a big deal for a healthy snake to not eat. My Cal King went off feed for 3 months over the winter. And again for 3 weeks not so long ago. He decided he didn't want rats anymore so I've been feeding him a bunch of smaller mice instead. Feeding 3-4 mice as opposed to 1 rat ia getting old quick!

barbicrash · 07-28-14, 11:39 AM

Ok so its been ten days since she threw up and I'd like to feed her again but some websites say 10 days and some say two weeks. I was gonna try feeding her a pinkie today and then maybe one in 5 days and then try for a fuzzy if she keeps both down. She's very hungry, she was hunting for about a week but I think she's given up now cause she hasn't moved much in the past few days. My gut is telling me that she's not sick because this was the first "big meal" she's had and I did handle her. The guy at the reptile shop said that when a snake first moves up food size, they are a bit more "sensitive" if you will and are more likely to throw up if handled. Also I plan on getting that thermostat but i really don't think heat is the issue and I don't even think she likes the heat, she spends 95% of her time on the cool side, even when the warm side is only like 80 degrees.

SnoopySnake · 07-28-14, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbicrash

Also I plan on getting that thermostat but i really don't think heat is the issue and I don't even think she likes the heat, she spends 95% of her time on the cool side, even when the warm side is only like 80 degrees.

Never had a regurge so I don't have any advice on that, I'd imagine it'd be okay to feed, but I'm not 100% so I'd wait for someone else to chime in. Regarding the thermostat, you should really get one. Heat mats can get way too hot, which may be why your snake is avoiding the hot side. Those analog thermometers are only measuring your air temps, not the surface temp where your heat mat is, and are notorious for being wrong. I would recommend getting an infrared thermometer to measure surface temps and a digital thermometer/hygrometer. And obviously a thermostat.

A good inexpensive thermostat: Amazon.com : Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat For Heat Mats : Plant Germination Heating Mats : Patio, Lawn & Garden

A good digital thermometer/hygrometer: Amazon.com - AcuRite 00325 Home Comfort Monitor, Black - Indoor Thermometers

An infrared thermometer: Nubee® Temperature Gun Non-contact Infrared Thermometer w/ Laser Sight - Instant Read Thermometers - Amazon.com

**EL Ziggy** · 07-28-14, 04:16 PM

A thermostat is a vital piece of equipment when keeping snakes that require a heat source. I use hydrofarms for all my tanks. They're not very expensive and they're pretty reliable. I haven't had any issues with mine. I think it's definitely ok to try feeding her. Start with a pinky or small fuzzy and see how she does and don't handle her for at least 2 days after feeding. Best wishes and keep us posted.

barbicrash · 07-28-14, 10:59 PM

Yeah I'm definitely going to buy a thermostat. I fed her a large pinkie today and if she keeps it down, I'm gonna move her up to a fuzzy again. I've decided not to handle her until she gets a few large meals in her. Shes not an aggressive snake whatsoever so I'm going to focus on feeding her more regularly with bigger prey. I've heard that lack of handling makes them more aggressive but I dunno, she wasn't even bad when I first got her. Once she seems to be eating normally again, ill start handling her regularly and ill update here every so often.

**EL Ziggy** · 07-29-14, 08:12 AM

She should be ok B. I think that's just a myth about snakes becoming more aggressive when you don't handle them. I handle my snakes maybe once or twice a week for about 5-10 minutes. I don't believe most snakes really like to be handled but they tolerate it, some better than others. I actually prefer watching my snakes more than handling them anyway. You're on the right track. Once your husbandry is dialed in and she's had 2-3 good meals you'll be good to go. Your girl is a little undersized right now but try feeding her 10-15% of her body weight every 6-7 days and you'll see her bulk up pretty quickly. Best wishes and keep us posted.

barbicrash · 07-29-14, 05:59 PM

She threw up the pinkie. Now I'm a bit worried. It was a larger pinkie than I normally give her yes, but it was definitely a pinkie. I really don't even know what to do at this point. Shes never done this before and and it only started when I attempted to give her large food. She was eating perfectly fine before that. :-/