Meet the new family memberw

[Alisa-D]

I've noticed Yogi is a different shape to Koko. While Koko is slender, Yogi is becoming more bulky. They also have different head shapes, Koko head is narrow and pointy and Yogi's head is more broader and has a more stubby snout. Maybe they are male and female????


a rare picture of Yogi. Showing different head shape to Koko in my posts above

[murrindindi]

Hi, I think the reason one seems bulkier than the other is probably down to domination (stress), this will almost always happen when more than one animal shares the enclosure.

[Pirarucu]

The differing head shapes could be due to gender, but it's too early to tell. Any difference in body bulk is probably due to one stealing most of the food, it's far too early for males to begin bulking up. They are bottomless pits at this point, so you need to give lots of food to make sure they both get their fair share. Otherwise the more dominant of the pair will get most of it and not leave enough left for the smaller.

[Alisa-D]

I think I am going to try and seperate them so they can have their own space.

I have also just bought a dubia roach colony that I am picking up on saturday. Hopefully they will like roachies

[Pirarucu]

I would not advise doing that. For one thing, if they grow up alone then as adults they will not be used to each other and may not know how to react to the other's presence. They learn how to interact while they are young, and this helps develop dominance behaviors that do not result in any lasting injuries. Adults that have not been able to learn these behaviors should not be introduced, as there is a good chance one could kill the other. I would only separate if there is serious fighting going on. So far it sounds to me like one is more bold than the other, and is hogging the food before the other gets to it. Just give them extra food to ensure they are both getting enough and they should be ok. And yes, they will like roaches.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

I would not advise doing that. For one thing, if they grow up alone then as adults they will not be used to each other and may not know how to react to the other's presence. They learn how to interact while they are young, and this helps develop dominance behaviors that do not result in any lasting injuries. Adults that have not been able to learn these behaviors should not be introduced, as there is a good chance one could kill the other. I would only separate if there is serious fighting going on. So far it sounds to me like one is more bold than the other, and is hogging the food before the other gets to it. Just give them extra food to ensure they are both getting enough and they should be ok. And yes, they will like roaches.

Hi, when you say the dominance behaviours will not result in (lasting?) injuries, are you sure about that?

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, when you say the dominance behaviours will not result in (lasting?) injuries, are you sure about that?

Of course not, there are always exceptions. While young however it is unlikely that either will do the other any serious harm. If they were ever introduced as adults, they would be more likely to hurt each other if they were raised alone.
There are always risks when housing animals together, but I personally would risk housing them together as babies instead of introducing them later on.
This is, of course, assuming that the OP would introduce/house them together at some point. If that is not the case, then there is no risk.

[Mikoh4792]

Doesn't Wayne(Infernalis) house two savs together successfully?

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Doesn't Wayne(Infernalis) house two savs together successfully?

Hi, can you define "successfully"?
Keeping 2 adult males in an enclosure only just big enough for one is really not supporting them properly at all in my opinion. There is regular stress caused by domination which is not healthy for either animal, and just because they are still alive after 2 years doesn`t mean much.
Obviously at the beginning he (Wayne) was hoping they were male and female, unfortunately not so, therefore absolutely no reason to keep them together at this time (other than it saves building another enclosure).
I`m fairly sure Wayne would not advise anyone else to do it this way knowing what he now knows.
The concern I have for the OP`s animals is that they are in a much smaller space than Wayne`s were, so the chances of something going badly wrong are that much greater.
Maybe the OP can try the transillumination technique to determine which gender she has (worth a try).

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

Of course not, there are always exceptions. While young however it is unlikely that either will do the other any serious harm. If they were ever introduced as adults, they would be more likely to hurt each other if they were raised alone.
There are always risks when housing animals together, but I personally would risk housing them together as babies instead of introducing them later on.
This is, of course, assuming that the OP would introduce/house them together at some point. If that is not the case, then there is no risk.

Hi again, my thoughts are that regular stress is unhealthy, so even if no serious physical injuries occur, stress itself can be a killer.
If the OP had a relatively large enclosure it may have helped a little, but she hasn`t. They can become sexually mature in several months or so if conditions support them, what happens if they are still housed in the present setup and one/both are female?

[Pirarucu]

I am not saying that they should remain together forever no matter what, I would definitely advise separating them if they reach a foot or so long without being moved to a bigger cage. I would never advise keeping two savs together without adequate space to avoid each other, I am simply saying that at their current size I believe their enclosure is large enough to house both of them together. They appear to be small babies, only a few inches long. A four foot cage is plenty big enough for two hatchlings, especially with it having as many visual barriers as it does.

[mdfmonitor]

have fun!!