Reptiles & Emotions

[MDT]

instinct ≠ emotion

opinion ≠ science

that is all.

[formica]

Originally Posted by MDT

instinct ≠ emotion

opinion ≠ science

that is all.

instincts are triggered by emotions, of course they arn't the same thing, one precedes the other, an instinct to fight, comes after the emotional feeling of fear.



the knowledge that reptiles, and most other animals on the planet, have neurotransmitters which function in the same way whether in humans or monitor lizards, is science, not opinion.

[pdomensis]

I think someone needs to come up with a snake/human dictionary. I see so many posts or videos talking about how snakie just loves to cuddle, or wants to come out of the tank to be held. Let me start with a few common examples. Feel free to add or amend.

Curious=trying to get the hell out of there

Wants to cuddle=is either cold and likes your body heat, or is terrified and looking for a place to hide

Comes towards owner=goes to familiar scent/heat signature or is freaked out because he was put down in an open lawn and is going to the only cover available

Likes to explore=see Curious

Watches you from tank=has learned either food is coming or there is a likely chance for escape; or is defensive

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by pdomensis

Watches you from tank=has learned either food is coming or there is a likely chance for escape; or is defensive

Or maybe isn't even watching you lol.

[pdomensis]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Or maybe isn't even watching you lol.

too true Mikoh

[poomwah]

Originally Posted by formica

yes I would say so, for eg those which incubate their own eggs (eg carpet pythons), are far more protective of their eggs, than those which dont, and a few (for eg Crocs) go so far as protecting their young beyond hatching - an emotional bond must exist for this to happen, whether they can discribe that emotional bond in abstract human terms, is irrelevant imo, a crocs teeth says it all!

crocs in particular were what I was thinking about

[poomwah]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Or maybe isn't even watching you lol.

we spend a LOT of time trying to figure out exactly what the HELL George is looking at .

[pdomensis]

Originally Posted by formica

yes I would say so, for eg those which incubate their own eggs (eg carpet pythons), are far more protective of their eggs, than those which dont, and a few (for eg Crocs) go so far as protecting their young beyond hatching - an emotional bond must exist for this to happen, whether they can discribe that emotional bond in abstract human terms, is irrelevant imo, a crocs teeth says it all!

The instinct to protect one's young doesn't necessarily have anything to do with EMOTION. It's simply an evolutionary strategy to preserve and pass on DNA. The question is, do crocs think about it when they do it, and do they feel something, or do they just do it because it's pre-wired.

[formica]

Originally Posted by pdomensis

The instinct to protect one's young doesn't necessarily have anything to do with EMOTION. It's simply an evolutionary strategy to preserve and pass on DNA. The question is, do crocs think about it when they do it, and do they feel something, or do they just do it because it's pre-wired.

Emotion is simply an evolutionary strategy to preserve and pass on DNA

I dont agree that a croc needs to ''think'' about what they are doing, or even have an awareness that what they are experiencing is fear, that is confusing intelligence and emotion, which is where this discussion tends to go wrong

[pdomensis]

Action without awareness is instinct, isn't it?

[formica]

Originally Posted by pdomensis

Action without awareness is instinct, isn't it?

not really, awareness is another topic, but either way, we have to know the order things happen, or the topic gets confused:


predator appears > prey notices > emotional response (fear) > instinctive action (fight or flight)

[Pareeeee]

I'v seen no evidence proving or disproving that they have emotions. It would be nice if an actual, in-depth study was done.

Snakes are difficult to interpret.

I'm 50-50 on this.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Pareeeee

I'v seen no evidence proving or disproving that they have emotions. It would be nice if an actual, in-depth study was done.

Snakes are difficult to interpret.

I'm 50-50 on this.

I'm more like 99 - 1. I like to take to the side that is more probable, but never sure without hard facts.

[pdomensis]

So to me this boils down to different definitions of emotion. The first, and I think this is what the OP was considering, involves thoughts and feelings, the second relating to formica's posts involves a chemical response to a stimulus.

Maybe they're one and the same in the end.

[formica]

what further facts do you need? the Neurotransmitters Serotonin, Dopamine and Adrenaline are well documented throughout the entire animal kingdom, they peform the same functions across the board.

a snake does not need to be able to write a love song, in order to protect its eggs from predators.


I think the real issue here, is a misunderstanding of what emotions actually are - they are not a complex cognitive process which relies on intelligence, they are simply the base chemical processes which trigger behaviors, and in the case of humans, it also triggers abstract and complex thought patterns.

Originally Posted by pdomensis

So to me this boils down to different definitions of emotion. The first, and I think this is what the OP was considering, involves thoughts and feelings, the second relating to formica's posts involves a chemical response to a stimulus.

Maybe they're one and the same in the end.

exactly, thats the problem, confusing emotion, intelligence and human thoughts/communication



further to that, I think that we as humans, tend to overemphasize how diffrent we really are - for eg, yes we have art and music, but then...so do many birds...even art in some species of bird, and it serves the same purpose, whether the artist wishes to acknowledge that purpose or hide it behind a complicated social analysis