Hands-on handling, positive and negative experience question

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Toothless

I would keep at it a bit (I'm glad I did). I was stunned by his sudden change in attitude as well. He would literally lunge at me with mouth open every time I opened the enclosure- I started wearing large oven mitts just to make myself feel better. Before this I could let him climb out of the enclosure and explore with no problem. I pretty much ignored him for a while (a few months), and one day I noticed he was sitting my the door. He started comming up to investigate every time I opened the enclosure and his demenor changed.
It would be nice to know if experienced keepers have noticed a change in attitiude around the 1 year mark?

Hi, I think it may be due to the fact they are becoming adult (sexually mature), and showing they are dominant would be part of that process.
In my experience with a variety of species over 30+ years I`ve actually never had one become more defensive towards me the older they got (always less so) I guess I must be doing it all wrong, so what`s your secret!?

[Toothless]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, I think it may be due to the fact they are becoming adult (sexually mature), and showing they are dominant would be part of that process.
In my experience with a variety of species over 30+ years I`ve actually never had one become more defensive towards me the older they got (always less so) I guess I must be doing it all wrong, so what`s your secret!?

Did any of the monitors you have been around show a sudden change in temperament when they became sexually mature?

My guy's pretty good now, and I think that if I had to I could pick him up without much fuss (maybe a few hisses), but I didn't do anything to make him that way besides ignoring him for a few months. I would hold the food quietly on the tongues, say hello, then close the door when he was done. I tried to change the water whenever he was sleeping or hiding otherwise I quickly reached in, grabbed it, and closed the door.
After a few months of this, his temperament suddenly changed again and he didn't seem bothered at all by me, or anyone for that matter. Strange people used to bother him and he would hiss and whip if they stood too close to the enclosure, but now he comes right up to the door and starts scratching. I think he's more comfortable now that he's larger and doesn't feel as threatened.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Toothless

Did any of the monitors you have been around show a sudden change in temperament when they became sexually mature?

My guy's pretty good now, and I think that if I had to I could pick him up without much fuss (maybe a few hisses), but I didn't do anything to make him that way besides ignoring him for a few months. I would hold the food quietly on the tongues, say hello, then close the door when he was done. I tried to change the water whenever he was sleeping or hiding otherwise I quickly reached in, grabbed it, and closed the door.
After a few months of this, his temperament suddenly changed again and he didn't seem bothered at all by me, or anyone for that matter. Strange people used to bother him and he would hiss and whip if they stood too close to the enclosure, but now he comes right up to the door and starts scratching. I think he's more comfortable now that he's larger and doesn't feel as threatened.

Hi, as I said my monitors have all got calmer the older and bigger they`ve got, but then I`m very regularly having physical contact with them (the touching/stroking) which obviously means they are used to that so don`t act defensively at all when it happens.
My present Asian Water monitor is extremely calm outside the enclosure, moreso than inside at times, but that`s because "outside" isn`t his "house" as such, though he is very familiar with the surroundings now (has learned there`s nothing to threaten his existence on the "outside").
In other words, in the wild they know their home range extremely well, but their places of safety are their hides.
There`s no doubt that they react to our emotions, perhaps he picked up on your nervousness and felt threatened?

[nepoez]

Maybe cut their tail off and neuter them, like the dog industry does haha. jk... I always find it strange that our society accepts that dogs get the tails cut off, balls chopped off, etc

[Toothless]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, as I said my monitors have all got calmer the older and bigger they`ve got, but then I`m very regularly having physical contact with them (the touching/stroking) which obviously means they are used to that so don`t act defensively at all when it happens.
My present Asian Water monitor is extremely calm outside the enclosure, moreso than inside at times, but that`s because "outside" isn`t his "house" as such, though he is very familiar with the surroundings now (has learned there`s nothing to threaten his existence on the "outside").
In other words, in the wild they know their home range extremely well, but their places of safety are their hides.
There`s no doubt that they react to our emotions, perhaps he picked up on your nervousness and felt threatened?

Sorry I didn't get that the last post. I'm sleep deprived at the moment and its amazing I can read and type at all . I apologize in advance if this doesn't appear to be english :P.

I'm not nervous around him, just cautious as I would prefer not to get bit- I only became cautious after he started lunging and am still so to some degree even though he has calmed down. I'm not sure what triggered the sudden defensiveness but ignoring him for a while did the trick for him.

I'd love to start working with him more as I plan to start getting regular bloodwork done on him (every six months), but plan to wait until he is comfortable enough being picked up and placed in a carrier before I make the trip though. Maybe sometime next summer .

[formica]

Originally Posted by nepoez

Maybe cut their tail off and neuter them, like the dog industry does haha. jk... I always find it strange that our society accepts that dogs get the tails cut off, balls chopped off, etc

docking is illegal here, and in most of Europe, unless there is a good medical reason to do it - castration is a different thing tho, uncastrated dogs can be significantly more aggressive when an owner is unable to maintain a proper dominant position, unfortunately most people are unable, or unaware of the correct way to take a dominant position with a dog, and worse still allot of them believe that being aggressive/hitting/shouting is the way to do it

[varanus_mad]

Hands on taming is a big no no for me... Evey varanid I've held that's been brought up that way it's heartbeat is going ten to the dozen.

Keep at it'll come round I suspect it's initial reaction was part of the settling process.

[nepoez]

Originally Posted by formica

docking is illegal here, and in most of Europe, unless there is a good medical reason to do it - castration is a different thing tho, uncastrated dogs can be significantly more aggressive when an owner is unable to maintain a proper dominant position, unfortunately most people are unable, or unaware of the correct way to take a dominant position with a dog, and worse still allot of them believe that being aggressive/hitting/shouting is the way to do it

I think if the animal is meant to be aggressive without castration, then that's how it should be, and if it's too dangerous to keep then it shouldn't be kept as a pet Castrating it so it suits the owner is just messed up in my view, at least at this point in time that's how I feel.

[formica]

Originally Posted by nepoez

I think if the animal is meant to be aggressive without castration, then that's how it should be, and if it's too dangerous to keep then it shouldn't be kept as a pet Castrating it so it suits the owner is just messed up in my view, at least at this point in time that's how I feel.

all dogs are more aggressive when not castrated, thats just the nature of hormones, obviously its to a lessor or greater degree depending on the dog - all dogs are dangerous if not trained and looked after properly, they are after all, top level predators, there is no getting around that, except thru proper dominance techniques

if castration caused pain, or a reduction in the quality of life, then i'd agree, but reducing aggression and wounds/medical care as a result, unwanted pregnancies, puppies then getting dumped in rivers, dogs less likley to vanish into the night and cause mayhem in the communicty and further...etc are good reasons for it imo

[Toothless]

I agree. Castration is not in the same category as ear and tail cropping (same as de-clawing in cats). Docking and cropping is an unneccasairy procedure which does not benefit the animal at all in most cases. Castration on the other hand not only reduces the amount of unwanted puppies, it also makes the animal more comfortable as they are not constantly driven by their hormones and the need to mate.

[mdfmonitor]

The more positives experiences they have the more easier going monitor you’ll have, if you use dominating behaviour like picking up or stroking from above etc the more problem you’ll have in my experience. One negative experience could undo several positive experiences

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by mdfmonitor

One negative experience could undo several positive experiences

Bazinga!

Good timing to share this, several evenings ago I was feeding my lizards, as per the usual, Littlefoot jumped out onto the floor to attack the plate of food. He noticed a crack in the door (it was not fully closed) and bolted full speed, before I could even react or flinch, he was down the hallway.

I had to chase him down, corner him and forcefully place him back in the cage and close the door.

Ever since then, at the first sight of me, he vanishes down a hole and won't come back out.

The one forced grab up has set me back on trust quite a bit.

[formica]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Bazinga!

Good timing to share this, several evenings ago I was feeding my lizards, as per the usual, Littlefoot jumped out onto the floor to attack the plate of food. He noticed a crack in the door (it was not fully closed) and bolted full speed, before I could even react or flinch, he was down the hallway.

I had to chase him down, corner him and forcefully place him back in the cage and close the door.

Ever since then, at the first sight of me, he vanishes down a hole and won't come back out.

The one forced grab up has set me back on trust quite a bit.

im interested in the diffrence between the way you interact with your current two, and your previous Sav? you seemed to have built up a pretty good trusting relationship with him, where as your current two, as you say are more 'wild', what method did you use previously? i know that temperature may have been a factor in his reaction to you (if i'm remembering right), but would still be interested in how you went about it

[infernalis]

Oh, we mauled and handled Chomper all the time.

He was "calm" (lethargic) and paid for it with his life.

Hence why I went fill 180 this time. (opposite)

[Toothless]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Bazinga!

Good timing to share this, several evenings ago I was feeding my lizards, as per the usual, Littlefoot jumped out onto the floor to attack the plate of food. He noticed a crack in the door (it was not fully closed) and bolted full speed, before I could even react or flinch, he was down the hallway.

I had to chase him down, corner him and forcefully place him back in the cage and close the door.

Ever since then, at the first sight of me, he vanishes down a hole and won't come back out.

The one forced grab up has set me back on trust quite a bit.

Haha! I can see him now...'FREEDOM!!!!!.....oh crap, nevermind!'

Close to the same thing happened with me a little while ago and I found the same thing happened. He wanted mothing to do with me for a few weeks.