Recent Komodo postings of Dr. Bryan Fry

[infernalis]

Obviously more elaboration is warranted.

Originally Posted by Bryan@facebook

To put it all in perspective, see these two pictures of different water buffalo on Rinca island. The first showing just how feral the water is. That animal is on its way down. Just like it would be if I sliced its leg with a sterile scalpel and then let it flee into the festering water of a sewage treatment plant. It is injured and trying to hide in the only water around.... which is turbid black filth. The second image shows the sorts of injuries that they get. This one has part of its colon hanging out. Not lethal by itself but combined with that buffalo crap filled watering hole is a death sentence.

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by formica

interesting on the dart frogs - do we know what they are missing from their diet? never knew that...

I'd always heard it was because they didnt have the toxins in their diet from a mainly ant based diet in the wild. They eat mostly small insects in the detritus of the forest floor/on large living-growth trees, from ispods to ants... but ive never researched it in depth.

[formica]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Obviously more elaboration is warranted.

that second image is gross, thanks lol

I think the evidence is quite suggestive that Dr Fry's assumption is correct, i'm not sure it could be said to be conclusive tho - hopefully it will lead to more study, I have to admit I'm quite suprised that it hasnt been studied more in depth until now!

Originally Posted by Starbuck

I'd always heard it was because they didnt have the toxins in their diet from a mainly ant based diet in the wild. They eat mostly small insects in the detritus of the forest floor/on large living-growth trees, from ispods to ants... but ive never researched it in depth.

I cant find much info on it at all, except that wild caught darts tend to loose their poison fairly quickly in captivity - intrigued to find out where the poison is coming from, could be direct, or it could be that their bodies are metabolising something else and turning it into poison - there are plenty of ants out there with neurotoxins, a fair few of them would give a frog a run for its money if it tried to eat them tho!

[Zoo Nanny]

Here are a couple of decent articles on the frogs.
http://www.lakeforest.edu/live/files/538-altoreviewpdf
ASA Newsletter - Dart Poison Frogs and Toxins
I would love to see a comparative study on the diets and environments of wild vs. captive dragons. Captive dragons are eating a diet that has been raised in a controlled environment minimizing the bacteria and enzyme contents.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by formica

I'm intrigued to read the findings, looks like the Journal is the only play i'll find them. The only films I've seen of Komodos doing what they do, did indeed see the animal take close to 3 days to die (David Attenbourgh program i think)

Is this the same Dr Fry that announced that all monitors carry venom which was also dismissed broadly?

Hi, the articles are available to read on Bryan Grieg Fry`s website: venomdoc.com
The results have NOT been dismissed broadly as you suggest?

[formica]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, the articles are available to read on Bryan Grieg Fry`s website: venomdoc.com
The results have NOT been dismissed broadly as you suggest?

thanks for the link, will check it out


...their venomous nature is disputed, there are other posts on this thread which sum up the reasons behind the dispute - dismissed was perhaps the wrong word

[MDT]

i didn't realize there were so many biochemists and toxinologists on this board....

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by MDT

i didn't realize there were so many biochemists and toxinologists on this board....

Yes, they`re "10 a penny" on these websites.....

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Rob_H

This is exactly what the debate is about. Captive Komodos (the ones this study is based on) do not have nasty pathogenic bacteria in their saliva. Studies done on wild Komodos have shown that they do however. Bryan Fry et al argue that Komodos get the nasty bacteria from drinking water that buffalos and pigs (which are introduced) have been wallowing and defecating in. But they argue that this is unimportant, and the sepsis that results from a bite is actually due to injured animals that go and wallow in putrid water, allowing the deep lacerations caused by the dragon's bite to come into contact with the bacteria in the water.

Hence my comment: I'm not sure what this study is trying to prove, beyond showing that Komodo's kept in captivity don't have bacteria in their mouths. The dart frog example is an excellent analogue: just because something is environmentally dependent doesn't mean it's not important for an animal's survival or evolution. Neither the bacteria, venom, or water-hole arguments have yet been shown in a natural environment.

Hi, I think you`ve clearly misunderstood what was stated in the articles; at no time have Bryan or his associates claimed the Komodo dragons drank the water the prey had been wallowing in and that`s where the bacteria in their mouths came from?
They found the most advanced venom delivery system of any reptile in V. komodensis.
Maybe you can read ALL the articles again and then offer your opinions? Alternatively, you could contact the scientists immediately and inform them you know better (just kidding)!

[infernalis]

[formica]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

They found the most advanced venom delivery system of any reptile in V. komodensis.

in which artical is this discussed? or maybe you could just summerise and say what the venom delivery system is...it is not thru the saliva? I didnt see anything about it yet

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by formica

in which artical is this discussed? or maybe you could just summerise and say what the venom delivery system is...it is not thru the saliva? I didnt see anything about it yet

Hi again, on the home page at venomdoc.com click on "Komodo dragon" in the list at the top.
It is venom, NOT saliva, though as far as having some bacteria in their mouths (all animals do), in this case that`s not what`s causing the tissue damage and ultimate death of their prey.
Edit: See Wayne`s post above!

[Gatorhunter1231]

A good read

A central role for venom in predation by Varanus komodoensis (Komodo Dragon) and the extinct giant Varanus (Megalania) priscus

Wish I could pull up the old kingsnake thread that Brian posted on. Him and FR had a nice discussion which is where I think Brian talked about the proteins and enzymes that varanus had in common with rattlesnake. A lot of things came up their that I haven't seen Brian post anywhere else. I know Dave (crocdoc) could probably link it or be more up-to-date. The study did not just stay on Komodo but relied on lace monitor (v.varius) and crocodile monitor (v. Salvadorii). Also worth noting that they are the closest relatives to meglania (Megalania prisca).

[infernalis]

Komodo dragon bacteria a myth (Science Alert)

Hot topic.

[formica]

Originally Posted by Gatorhunter1231

A good read

A central role for venom in predation by Varanus komodoensis (Komodo Dragon) and the extinct giant Varanus (Megalania) priscus

.

had a quick scan thru, much more detailed thanks! saved for later