I may be shying away from kingsnakes - Maybe some of ya'll can keep me going?

[Starbuck]

i agree with MBKs posts.

You can try moving your king to a diferent area of the house, leave him alone for a week, then try handling and see if there is a change.

I realize most of us just assumed it was a feeding resopnse bite; formica actually asked for clarification. If the snake is in a suspended 'S' shape, and strikes repeatedly and then retreats, it is a defensive reaction to an uncomfortable situation. If your snake is biting then holding on, it is a food issue.
When my female king bit me; she was alert and inquisitive when i took her out, and as she was nosing aorund my hands, she suddenly froze, pushed her face against the side of my hand, then opened her mouth and held on (?!?) she let go after a few seconds, but i was completely caught off guard, there wasnt anything to make me think it would happen beforehand. In later handling sessions, i was more wary of her, so i would move my hands away from her quicker, which i realize looked like prey, and she would have stronger reactions. This is when i started hook training, and building up to full handling (i.e. her head stayed on the bed or on a perch, and i handled her body and tail). I also taught my boyfriend to handle her safely, since he wasnt afraid of being bitten (stupid i know), and wouldnt react like i would. It was 90% about me building my confidence, and 10% about training the snake :P

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by MBK Boy

Good morning.

Kingsnakes are no less then awesome.

I have three kingsnakes and have work with two others. Other then a baby I was training I have fever been bitten by any of my Kingsnakes. Including my Mexican Black who are known for being feisty.

In my experience Kingsnakes only really bite for a couple reasons.

1) The animal could be stressed, this could be caused by many reasons such as to much handling, not being handled correctly or possibly something is wrong with it's enclosure such as not enough hides.

I changed my substrate once on my MBK to repti-bark and for what ever reason (I,m guessing he couldn't burrow well in it) he turned pissy.

When I changed it back to aspen, he became his old self again immediately.

2) They are in food/eating mode. Hook training and clean hands should take care of this. I have never had to hook train any of mine. I do wash my hands ALL the time before entering their enclosure. I can put my hands right in and pat them or pick them up with no problems.

You mentioned you have other snakes in the room. This may be a causing a food reaction considering snakes are a favored meal for Kingsnakes in the wild.

Maybe try moving them for a few weeks and see what happens.

Originally Posted by Starbuck

i agree with MBKs posts.

You can try moving your king to a diferent area of the house, leave him alone for a week, then try handling and see if there is a change.

I realize most of us just assumed it was a feeding resopnse bite; formica actually asked for clarification. If the snake is in a suspended 'S' shape, and strikes repeatedly and then retreats, it is a defensive reaction to an uncomfortable situation. If your snake is biting then holding on, it is a food issue.
When my female king bit me; she was alert and inquisitive when i took her out, and as she was nosing aorund my hands, she suddenly froze, pushed her face against the side of my hand, then opened her mouth and held on (?!?) she let go after a few seconds, but i was completely caught off guard, there wasnt anything to make me think it would happen beforehand. In later handling sessions, i was more wary of her, so i would move my hands away from her quicker, which i realize looked like prey, and she would have stronger reactions. This is when i started hook training, and building up to full handling (i.e. her head stayed on the bed or on a perch, and i handled her body and tail). I also taught my boyfriend to handle her safely, since he wasnt afraid of being bitten (stupid i know), and wouldnt react like i would. It was 90% about me building my confidence, and 10% about training the snake :P

Originally Posted by formica

if the snake is biting fast and then retreating, it means its not yet ready to trust you, take things slow, get it used to you being around, and your hands being close, might take weeks, just dont rush it. it might be that it'll never like human handling, sumthing you should be prepared for, but usually they will learn to trust eventually

Basically when I take her out she slithers freely through my hands. She doesn't move carefully or in a wary manner. She just a very outgoing snake and does what she wants. If she was being shy or defensive I would know. No S shapes, hissing, musking..etc. She doesn't care that she's being handled. She just moved around for a bit and when she reaches my hand or fingers she kind of bumps into it with the tip of her mouth, opens, bites, and starts constricting.

I'm definately gonna have to try that hook training method. It might just help. If not, I am going to assume that she was never really handled up until this point or that is just her nature.

[bcr229]

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

How old is she? Do you think a 2 year old kingsnake could just calm down like that?(not really calm down, but be less bitey)

I'd guess she's 18 months old. I think she picked up the behavior because for a while the only reason we were picking her up was to feed her, and then she was placed in another plastic tub. So, we inadvertently taught her that handling = eating. Now we're conditioning her so that she is only fed in her enclosure, and if she's hooked and handled she's not fed.

Also it's not a defensive/scared response, it's definitely food driven. Each time she nailed me she grabbed and held. When she got my pinky she tried working her way around to the smaller end so she could start swallowing. The "velcro monster" let go quickly when I waved a cotton ball that had been soaked in white vinegar in front of her nose.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by bcr229

I'd guess she's 18 months old. I think she picked up the behavior because for a while the only reason we were picking her up was to feed her, and then she was placed in another plastic tub. So, we inadvertently taught her that handling = eating. Now we're conditioning her so that she is only fed in her enclosure, and if she's hooked and handled she's not fed.

Also it's not a defensive/scared response, it's definitely food driven. Each time she nailed me she grabbed and held. When she got my pinky she tried working her way around to the smaller end so she could start swallowing. The "velcro monster" let go quickly when I waved a cotton ball that had been soaked in white vinegar in front of her nose.

Exactly the same for me. My king never strikes at me. She only bites one she gets close to my hand and fingers. She stops for a second, opens her mouth, and latches on.

[Terranaut]

Sorry but I didn't read all the posts so if my answer is the same as someone elses I am sorry. It sounds like a feeding response to me. Clean your hands with soap before handling. Thats it. They eat other snakes so the scent of just about anything will trigger a feed response.

[Ourobouros]

Don't feed your snake in its tank. Feed it in a separate feeding tank or area. This will set the expectation that you're feeding it only when it goes to that place instead of each time you open the tank. When feeding also use tongs to put in the food. Snakes often miss or mistake your hand for the food.

Also hesitation when picking up your snake may make it nervous. I worked at a petsmart with a very aggressive California kingsnake and no one there (coworkers) wanted to take it out. They always asked me to get it out. ^_^

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by Ourobouros

Don't feed your snake in its tank. Feed it in a separate feeding tank or area. This will set the expectation that you're feeding it only when it goes to that place instead of each time you open the tank. When feeding also use tongs to put in the food. Snakes often miss or mistake your hand for the food.

Also hesitation when picking up your snake may make it nervous. I worked at a petsmart with a very aggressive California kingsnake and no one there (coworkers) wanted to take it out. They always asked me to get it out. ^_^

It is not necessary to feed in a separate enclosure. I feed all of my snakes in their tanks, and have zero problems with food aggression now (since i started hook-conditioning).

I do agree that sometimes our movements when we are nervous/wary of getting bitten appear similar to prey, and can elicit a food response. If it would help, consider a light, clean work glove. This will mask your smell, and most importantly, build your confidence since you wont fear being bitten. Gradually you can phase out the glove.

[Ourobouros]

Agreed that a separate tank isn't necessary but I find it easier and comforting this way. Don't have to worry about the bedding being accidentally consumed or having a separate feeding dish in there. Plus it creates a nice routine for me and the snake. While she eats I clean zee tank. =D

[StudentoReptile]

When feeding snakes in separate containers, I am generally against it, especially for new arrivals and picky/finicky snakes (like ball pythons tend to be). It is my opinion that taking the snake out of its enclosure where it is familiar, stressing it out by handling it, putting it into a new environment where it may feel more uncomfortable, etc. is not conducive to getting it to feed. I find this especially true for ball pythons.

In most of my experience, I have seen no noticeable difference in temperament feeding inside the enclosure vs in a separate container; docile snakes have remained docile, and aggressive/overly-defensive/eager feeders are just as likely to go after your fingers no matter where they are being fed.

That said, I have had a few grown LTC/WC kings that were grumpy/iffy where I felt more comfortable hooking them out of their enclosure and putting in a separate container. Obviously, they had no issue eating anywhere, but it did get them out of the habit of launching themselves out of their cages whenever I opened the door.

Speaking with a few retic keepers, I do advocate the hook-training or "paper towel" method of getting snakes out of the "food/cage aggressive" mode; just take something that is not associated with food, and whenever you open the enclosure, bump the snake lightly on the body and/or snout with said object (some use a roll of paper towels, some use a hook)...anything to let the snake know they are not going to get fed. I have observed others using this method, and I have employed a few times, and I would say most of the time, it works. When the cage door opens, the snake is automatically in "feed mode" but when you tap with the object, it kinda flips that switch off and the snake mellows out long enough to pick it up out of its enclosure.

Bottom line: every individual snake is different and every keeper is different. Be flexible with your animals, but remember the animals aren't as adaptable as you are. I feed some snakes live, and others frozen (nowadays, it's simply what is more available to me on feeding day). Some I just toss a rat in the cage, and others I take out and feed.

[Ourobouros]

Snakes do have unique little personalities and should be catered to. Um one thing I've never seen before.. My snake got 2 pinkie mice last Thursday and the first went down slowly but the second one she destroyed in 45 seconds. Then she put her nose to the bottom up against the plastic.. Opening and closing her mouth like she wanted more food. But she's so tiny..