World’s largest Snake: Finding & Caring for a Giant Reticulated Python (Bronx Zoo)

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by lemon

Hi,

Was Samantha actually measured? She doesn't look 26ft in the pictures. She looks a very big girl but appears a couple of feet short at around 22-23ft.

I've yet to be convinced of any snake proven over 25ft or even 23ft for that matter.

Where did you see pics of Samantha?

[bronxzoofrank]

Hi All,

Estimates via viewing or photo are notoriously unreliable. I can only repeat that I was on hand for the measurements, and have been in zoo/field research for 30+ years. But the figures and individual snakes mentioned have been tossed about and argued over for far too long, so I'll leave it at that, and post any new info as it becomes available.

Pope's classic Giant Snakes is a very interesting read on the subject; much anecdotal, but very good as a historical perspective. The natural history notes sections of Herpetologica, Copeia and Herpetological Review are very good sources of accurate info re size, but unfortunately are often not available at libraries and rather expensive. Best, Frank

[millertime89]

I'm unfamiliar with Fragant Flower, how long ago was she around?

[lemon]

Originally Posted by millertime89

I'm unfamiliar with Fragant Flower, how long ago was she around?

'Fragant Flower' is the retic quoted as being 49 foot long and over a 1000lbs in an Indonesian Zoo. When measured by 3 independant sources her average lenght was 22 foot 9 inches. So still the biggest currently known in captivity today but way off 49 foot lol.

:-)

[lemon]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Where did you see pics of Samantha?

They are photos taken by a fellow giant snake keeper when he visited her many years ago.

[lemon]

Originally Posted by bronxzoofrank

Hi All,

Estimates via viewing or photo are notoriously unreliable. I can only repeat that I was on hand for the measurements, and have been in zoo/field research for 30+ years. But the figures and individual snakes mentioned have been tossed about and argued over for far too long, so I'll leave it at that, and post any new info as it becomes available.

Pope's classic Giant Snakes is a very interesting read on the subject; much anecdotal, but very good as a historical perspective. The natural history notes sections of Herpetologica, Copeia and Herpetological Review are very good sources of accurate info re size, but unfortunately are often not available at libraries and rather expensive. Best, Frank

Hi,

I have footage of Samantha being measured in 1999.

I'm not sure if this link will work outside of the uk but here it is.

Big Snake - 4oD - Channel 4

Samantha was obtained by the zoo in 1993 after being captured as an adult in 1992.

When she was measured in 1999 she had been at the zoo for 6-7 years and would have been between 15-20 years of age.

Retics do not grow after this age and they certainley don't grow another 3 foot in as many years as Samantha sadly died 3 years later in 2002.

On the documentary they we're trying to find a 30 foot plus snake and so were not in the habbit of downsizing snakes. They measured Samantha and the average was just below 23 foot. Still an absolutley massive snake and probably the biggest in captivity but if you google 'Fragant flower' who is confirmed at 22 foot 9 inches you'll know that Samantha wasn't a whole 3 foot longer.

I have two 6 year old adult retics , one at 16 foot and one at just over 19 foot. The difference in size with these 2 snakes is immense, Samantha would need to have the same immense size difference compared to 'Fragant Flower' and the other giants of our time. Samantha was very long and very well fed but unfortunaely I've yet to see evidence of her being 26 foot.

I hope the link works as at the end they find a very skinny 23.5 foot long retic that if genuinley that size would be the longest ever recorded. I have doubts though as they dont show the measuring as such and unfortunately they kill and eat her in a very unhumane manner.

Best,

Neil

[bronxzoofrank]

Originally Posted by lemon

Hi,

I have footage of Samantha being measured in 1999.

I'm not sure if this link will work outside of the uk but here it is.

Big Snake - 4oD - Channel 4

Samantha was obtained by the zoo in 1993 after being captured as an adult in 1992.

When she was measured in 1999 she had been at the zoo for 6-7 years and would have been between 15-20 years of age.

Retics do not grow after this age and they certainley don't grow another 3 foot in as many years as Samantha sadly died 3 years later in 2002.

On the documentary they we're trying to find a 30 foot plus snake and so were not in the habbit of downsizing snakes. They measured Samantha and the average was just below 23 foot. Still an absolutley massive snake and probably the biggest in captivity but if you google 'Fragant flower' who is confirmed at 22 foot 9 inches you'll know that Samantha wasn't a whole 3 foot longer.

I have two 6 year old adult retics , one at 16 foot and one at just over 19 foot. The difference in size with these 2 snakes is immense, Samantha would need to have the same immense size difference compared to 'Fragant Flower' and the other giants of our time. Samantha was very long and very well fed but unfortunaely I've yet to see evidence of her being 26 foot.

I hope the link works as at the end they find a very skinny 23.5 foot long retic that if genuinley that size would be the longest ever recorded. I have doubts though as they dont show the measuring as such and unfortunately they kill and eat her in a very unhumane manner.

Best,

Neil

Can't see link, do not recall being in a documentary in "99 (zoo very reluctant to participate as most so poorly done); nothing further to add, good luck with all, Frank

[lemon]

Originally Posted by bronxzoofrank

Can't see link, do not recall being in a documentary in "99 (zoo very reluctant to participate as most so poorly done); nothing further to add, good luck with all, Frank

The documentary is of a guy called 'Robert Twigger' and meets the guy in charge of the reptile house called 'John Behler'.

She was measured at just under 23 feet. Mr Behler then says they find it diffucult to measure her and they sometimes get her between 23 and 25 foot. This isn't only not 26 foot but also the guy is speaking absolute rubbish.

I measure my snakes on my own, in the footage their are about 10 people holding her down and they are using string. The measurement would never ever by 2 foot different when you have that many people handling her. In the footage she is being pinned down and you would only get a few cm's difference on each measurement.

She was a very beautiful big snake, but she wasn't 26 foot as proved in the footage.

She is unfortunately just another exaggaration like all the rest.

All the best,

Neil

[bronxzoofrank]

Yikes..the "guy in charge, John Behler" speaking rubbish! You may want to brush up on your herpetologists a bit...

I'll post any new info that comes up, Best, Frank

[lemon]

Originally Posted by bronxzoofrank

Yikes..the "guy in charge, John Behler" speaking rubbish! You may want to brush up on your herpetologists a bit...

I'll post any new info that comes up, Best, Frank

Hi Frank,

Please don't twist my words.

My statement clearly stated that John Behler was talking 'rubbish' in reference to the fact the snake was very hard to measure and it is easy to be 2 or more feet out when measuring her. The only reason he said this was because she was measured 3 feet smaller than what they claimed. I can measure snakes on my own and only be a few inches out at most when being re-measured with help. Samantha was treated quite roughly when she was being measured probably due to her being a very defensive wild caught snake rather than a more placid captive born specimen. She was being pinned down by around 10 members of staff and didn't move once throughout any of the measurements. The measurements done would be almost exact. It doesn't matter how many letters you have after your name or how long you have been working in a particular field of expertise, the statement he made is false and to be honest I'd be very surprised if he believed what he said. Also if your mesuring skills are that bad and unprecise then you can't really make a claim of 26 foot as a zoo because you are unable to measure a snake properly.

When Bob clark was quesitoned about a year ago on a uk forum he answered pretty much like a politician when confronted on the size of Fluffy.

Fluffy was sold to a zoo for $35,000 and was meant to be 24 foot long, which guiness records also backed. The zoo then did a tv show and measured her themselves. She came up as 20 ft 1 inch, a near 4 feet short of what she was said to be. Samantha was never a full 6 foot longer than fluffy unfortunatley, I wish she was as I've been waiting for a genuine retic over 25 foot all my life.

I have lost count of many reptile experts that are very very good at their job but have no idea when it comes to snake sizes. I personally just don't know if it's possible for any snake species alive today to get over 25 foot.

[millertime89]

Hey Neil, think you could rip that video and email it to me? There's a firefox plug in that allows you to do that. I would like to watch it but it looks like you have to be in the UK to watch it.

[bronxzoofrank]

Hello,

I did not twist any words as far as I can see, sorry if you see it that way; and, as I lack detailed information, I'm obviously not going to speculate as to what a deceased colleague had in mind when he spoke, the veracity of what he said, the relative value of his or others achievements, your expertise as a snake-measurer, or the value of your opinions on "snake experts". And I cannot comment on a video that I did not see (as an attorney, formerly practicing in Manhattan, I'm actually afraid to say anything about anyone!...sorry, just an instinct, based on the nature of life here in litigation-happy NYC).

I'll not be able to go through my notes, or to stop by the zoo and check files there, anytime soon. But further info may be on the way, although it will take time. While poking around some old stored material at the AM Mus of Natural History last year, I and a friend came across an interesting anaconda vertebrae. My friend is actively involved in related research, and may look into the size of the bone, it's origin, and what it may indicate, if anything, re the size of the snake. In the course of doing so he may investigate other large snakes as well. Grant availability will determine how all will go, but I'll keep abreast of any developments.

Best, Frank

[lemon]

Originally Posted by millertime89

Hey Neil, think you could rip that video and email it to me? There's a firefox plug in that allows you to do that. I would like to watch it but it looks like you have to be in the UK to watch it.

Hi,

I'll give it a try.

[lemon]

Originally Posted by bronxzoofrank

Hello,

I did not twist any words as far as I can see, sorry if you see it that way; and, as I lack detailed information, I'm obviously not going to speculate as to what a deceased colleague had in mind when he spoke, the veracity of what he said, the relative value of his or others achievements, your expertise as a snake-measurer, or the value of your opinions on "snake experts". And I cannot comment on a video that I did not see (as an attorney, formerly practicing in Manhattan, I'm actually afraid to say anything about anyone!...sorry, just an instinct, based on the nature of life here in litigation-happy NYC).

I'll not be able to go through my notes, or to stop by the zoo and check files there, anytime soon. But further info may be on the way, although it will take time. While poking around some old stored material at the AM Mus of Natural History last year, I and a friend came across an interesting anaconda vertebrae. My friend is actively involved in related research, and may look into the size of the bone, it's origin, and what it may indicate, if anything, re the size of the snake. In the course of doing so he may investigate other large snakes as well. Grant availability will determine how all will go, but I'll keep abreast of any developments.

Best, Frank

Sorry to hear that John is no longer with us.

Look forward to any further updates on the Anaconda.

Can you shed any further light on how old you estimated Samantha at Frank?

The zoo are quoted on many sources that she died aged 29-35 years of age.

It's just out of a pool of over 200 retics I have never come aross one that has grown beyond the age of 13 years and the majority stopped well before their tenth birthday.

If samantha died in 2002 at aged 29-35 she would have been aged 20-26 years when the zoo aquired her in 1993. So then wouldn't have grown an inch since the zoo owned her in that 9 year period and the zoo themselves confirm she was 22-23 foot when they first got her.

It's not that I'm trying to prove you wrong on her size it's just I love finding the real truth in life and one of my pasisons is giant snakes and unfortunatley about 99.9% of snake sizes are over estimated or pure lies.

If Samantha did in fact grow 3 foot from 1999-2002 then there is something that doesnt add up with the facts provided by the zoo as she could have only grown such a large amount if she was a very young snake in 1999 and she would have needed to be a baby not an adult when the zoo bought her in 1993. So it just isn't possible.

I would like to add though that I believe Samantha is one of if not the longest snake in recent captivity and I would have given my right arm to have owned her

[bronxzoofrank]

Sorry to hear that John is no longer with us.

Look forward to any further updates on the Anaconda.

Can you shed any further light on how old you estimated Samantha at Frank?

Hello,

John Behler passed in early 2006; Here is Peter Pritchard's eulogy. He arrived at the age estimation, I imagine after consultation with colleagues and/or the literature; I was not involved.

Best, Frank