Woma python is corkscrewing

[GyGbeetle]

No pest control is used inside the house for any reason. So I don't know what that is you're asking, but we definitely aren't using it. I have fur babies and I have really horrible asthma so we try and keep chemicals to a minimum. Only the regular house cleaning stuff. For cleaning out her tanks (and all their tanks), we use primarily water, sometimes we'll put a little hand soap on it if it's bad, and then rinse off so there's no soap residue.

Another thought we had was whether there was some house cleaner in the bathtub when we gave her a bath. We gave her 2 wash downs before she was fed because she pooped all over me and a little on herself while I was handling her. It was a lot of poop, so she got a bath. We usually sanitize the bath with disinfectant between snakes to avoid cross contamination and I don't recall if we had done that between her 2 baths. I'm hoping we weren't that careless, but it was the day before Xmas with 3 kids screaming throughout the house. Either way, I'm hoping the vet will tell us more.

I have a general mistrust of vets. I lost another snake about a month ago where I'm sure the vet possibly steered us wrong and wanted a huge amount of money to maybe figure out what was wrong with her. Turns out it was congenital. But in all my years of cat rescue I've had vets misdiagnose the animals then prey on the emotional to extort money.

[Andy_G]

I'm glad you don't even know what it is, because it's just awful stuff. A LOT of people have messed up their animals by using vapona strips over years as a "preventative" for mites and it's something that people still often overlook even though it's been known in the hobby for 20 years or so to have some nasty effects, and an even longer track record for harmful effects outside of the hobby. The stuff shouldn't even be sold in my opinion. If you google Vapona, something will surely come up.

The household cleaner residue in the bath could be the culprit but it's tough to call.

There are many competent and trustworthy vets. The key to finding one is to ask others around in your area. You really must find one that is a true specialist and not just familiar with snakes. Hopefully that's what has happened and you've found a good one that will not take advantage of the situation.

[GyGbeetle]

The pet store where we adopted Charlotte and 5 more snakes highly recommended this vet. As have a bunch of people in the area. And the owner of the pet store said this guy won't gouge us on vetting. So I'm hopeful.

We are now several hours after feeding and she's doing great. I'm hopeful she won't regurg; she hasn't up to this point.

Will update this post after her apt. Hopefully it's just me being a dumb human, and will resolve over time. She really is beautiful when she lifts her whole body up to try and get out of the tank. I hope to see her do that again

[TRD]

Originally Posted by Andy_G

snip

Yes, and just to make it clear;

IBD has been found in other species as well; Bothriechis marchi, Lampropeltis Getula spp., from what I read. Likely there are many more species affected but not tested for IBD at all and snake died due to "some RI" or w.e.

It's pretty safe to assume IBD can infect any snake, clinical signs, onset, and severity vary by case. Some snakes die from IBD without showing any signs at all.

[GyGbeetle]

Just took Charlotte to the vet today and the vet believes this may be IBD, even though it presents only with the upper body issue. I'm devastated, but my husband keeps reminding me not to jump to conclusions until the test comes back, which may not be for 2 weeks. The thought of losing my entire collection is freaking me out

[PsychoSnake]

I'm sorry. I really do hope it's not IBD.

Could it be toxic exposure from the substrate?

[GyGbeetle]

Originally Posted by PsychoSnake

I'm sorry. I really do hope it's not IBD.

Could it be toxic exposure from the substrate?

I hope so. But all the other snakes used the same substrate so I don't know why only 1 snake would have symptoms and no one else. The vet, after seeing Charlotte and hearing about the other snakes, did not believe it was toxin exposure.

We get CBC results Friday. IBD PCR could be up to 2 weeks. I probably won't be sleeping for 2 weeks.

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by GyGbeetle

..........But in all my years of cat rescue I've had vets misdiagnose the animals then prey on the emotional to extort money.

I'm keeping everything crossed for you and Charlotte.

When I book an appointment with my vet here in the UK I pay the consultation fee, but if they ask me to take the snake back in say 5, 7 or 10 days, I don't have to pay any fee only for extra medication if needed.

[PsychoSnake]

Originally Posted by MartinD

When I book an appointment with my vet here in the UK I pay the consultation fee, but if they ask me to take the snake back in say 5, 7 or 10 days, I don't have to pay any fee only for extra medication if needed.

It's the same with my vet. My vet has actually given me the better half of the deal considering how much I pester him.

[GyGbeetle]

Originally Posted by PsychoSnake

It's the same with my vet. My vet has actually given me the better half of the deal considering how much I pester him.

Hah! I don't know about this vet's policy. I do know that I primed the staff with the expectation that when I get lab results I will probably need roughly 30 mins of phone time to ask all the questions I'll have saved up between now and then. They said they'll be fine with it. We'll see how fine they'll be after they have to be on the receiving end of it.

[SerpentineDream]

Originally Posted by GyGbeetle

I hope so. But all the other snakes used the same substrate so I don't know why only 1 snake would have symptoms and no one else. The vet, after seeing Charlotte and hearing about the other snakes, did not believe it was toxin exposure.

We get CBC results Friday. IBD PCR could be up to 2 weeks. I probably won't be sleeping for 2 weeks.

The hand sanitizer you used in the container that held the used/reused substrate... is it possible some residue from that could have permeated the substrate? What's in it?

Also, what kind of soap do you use? It can be hard to get every single trace of it, even with rinsing. Any dyes, fragrances, chemicals?

I'm also suspicious of the bathtub cleanser. Lysol in particular is something I've been warned against using anywhere near snakes.

Those 3 things all popped out at me as possibilities for chemical exposure.

[GyGbeetle]

The hand sanitizer is this generic aloe stuff that we use before handling all the snakes. You know, that's kinda what I thought too. On the hands it evaporates quickly. But if it's residue on the sides of the plastic tub, it can absorb into the substrate. Doesn't evaporate before touching the skin.

We use Scrubbing Bubbles in the tub. We usually clean between snakes. My husband does a better job than me because he's got longer arms. That's also another possibility.

She ate yesterday again (3rd rat since this started) with no issues. And she gave me a beautiful full body shed when I woke up this morning. Yesterday at the vet she kept pulling her whole body up the side of the carrier we brought her in. This time not even using the side of the tub like she normally does. She peaked up, said hello, put her chin on the edge, waited for someone to stop her, then pulled herself out. I bring this up because it's the first time I've seen her do this since it all started. She was then holding her head up like she used to do.

[GyGbeetle]

Oh yeah, the vet kept trying to flip her on her back, to see how she'd resolve. She wasn't cooperating, and kept slithering away. He kept doing it, she kept flipping over and slithering away. He did it once, where she laid on her back, looked up at him, waited, and then flipped and tried to get under the door. I know I'm grasping at straws with this, but nothing about her symptoms seem to fit IBD. I may reach out to Dr Jacobson, who helped develop the IBD PCR test, just to see. Or maybe I should just stop being frantic about it and wait for th results.

[TRD]

Originally Posted by GyGbeetle

Oh yeah, the vet kept trying to flip her on her back, to see how she'd resolve. She wasn't cooperating, and kept slithering away. He kept doing it, she kept flipping over and slithering away. He did it once, where she laid on her back, looked up at him, waited, and then flipped and tried to get under the door. I know I'm grasping at straws with this, but nothing about her symptoms seem to fit IBD. I may reach out to Dr Jacobson, who helped develop the IBD PCR test, just to see. Or maybe I should just stop being frantic about it and wait for th results.

Yup, and actually the righting reflex that's not really a test for IBD... seeing how a snake resolves being put on the back can be indicative of several causes... just to name a few; neurological damage, spinal damage, weak muscle tone, problem with the vestibular system, and so on.. It's just a general health check.

The problem comes that the reflex itself is heavily dependent on the temperature the animal is at, and its state (f.e- in brumation). I haven't ever found any data as in how this reflex should work under different conditions, I guess a good vet should know by experience as there seems to be no medical research in this area.

I currently have a MBK that doesn't right himself and needs a vet inspection to rule out some of the nasty causes it may have.

A healthy snake should right himself, head first, and almost instantly when at good temperature.

[GyGbeetle]

I'm feeling more and more optimistic about her prognosis. One thing the vet said was she could've hit her head on the water dish while doing some of her acrobatics, which would be a pretty bad head trauma. If you've ever watched a video of a healthy Woma, they are insanely active. Charlotte is no different. So I kinda hope it was some sort of toxicity, or maybe she hit her head. The fact that she can right herself and even started playing with the vet I thought was a good sign