inbreeding...

[marvelfreak]

INBREEDING would be like sex with your sister gross and sicking. Your only going to in up with freaks with deformitys somewhere down the line. Of course! That would explain a few people i know. Animals don't know better, but we do. So why do it and even chances having inbreed unhealthy reptiles. Let's face it animals with defromity are week and don't live long.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by emseeKAY

sorry for this stupid question, but what does f1,f2,f3,f4 mean? Is that the number of the generation?

Not a stupid question at all.

F! - unrelated parents
F2 - breeding siblings or son/mother father/daughter
F3 - breeding siblings of F2

and so forth.

There is a mathematical equation that can be used to predict probability of genetic morphs appearing in the offspring as well.

[Nafun]

Inbreeding is why all of my snakes are naturally occurring morphs. I think snakes are beautiful the way they are. Their coloring and pattern tell you a story about their environment and the history of the species.

Inbreeding is really just a lazy and cheap way of creating morphs without regard to the impact it will have on the species as a whole, or the quality of life of the snake.
Case in point? Dalmatians.

[infernalis]

I too appreciate "normals" but I do have this hangup on albinos also.

[Nafun]

Ever since I was a kid, I thought albino snakes looked gross. Still do. I'll take my snakes brown and black, not yellow and white thanks.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Nafun

Ever since I was a kid, I thought albino snakes looked gross. Still do. I'll take my snakes brown and black, not yellow and white thanks.

Personal taste is what makes the world go round

However, these snakes are all 100% natural "normal" and representative of the species as found in nature.... Beautiful in my eyes.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Nafun

Inbreeding is why all of my snakes are naturally occurring morphs. I think snakes are beautiful the way they are. Their coloring and pattern tell you a story about their environment and the history of the species.

Inbreeding is really just a lazy and cheap way of creating morphs without regard to the impact it will have on the species as a whole, or the quality of life of the snake.
Case in point? Dalmatians.

You know, you sit here and say these things about morph keepers and breeders but yet you own a jungle carpet python. You do understand that Australia hasn't exported any new specimens for decades. This would mean that your gene "pool" isn't much more than a gene "puddle" at this point. I am talking of course legally exported animals. There might be a few that have "slipped" out.

[infernalis]

The same problem exists in Europe. Over there it is legal to posses San Francisco garter snakes.

Over here they are on the endangered species list making it a felony to capture, posses and export any live specimens.

The specimens that are all over the place there all originate back to one single pair that was exported back some 35 years ago from a zoo exchange.

[Nafun]

There's a big difference between a gene pool of a few thousand jungle carpet pythons and a few dozen of a rare morph.

[BlindOne]

I'm pretty sure that natural inbreeding has been occurring for millions of years with no catastrophic results. As long as the animals are turning out healthy, I see no problems with it. I really enjoy the morphs. I've got anerys, hypos, albinos and normals. All are gorgeous in their own way.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Nafun

There's a big difference between a gene pool of a few thousand jungle carpet pythons and a few dozen of a rare morph.

Which species are you talking about in regards to morphs? If we're talking the likes of corns, balls, boas etc. then it's only a matter of a few years before these rare morphs are outcrossed making the inbreeding a moot point.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Which species are you talking about in regards to morphs? If we're talking the likes of corns, balls, boas etc. then it's only a matter of a few years before these rare morphs are outcrossed making the inbreeding a moot point.

Glad you brought that up, I have an outcross project I'm doing right now to try and get rid of the bugeye in my albino red sided snakes.

the down side is there is no "instant cash" with this, it takes years to do.

I will not breed a 12 month old snake, they are just not mature enough in my eyes, I prefer 24 months before I breed my snakes.

Some breeders I know of will "power feed" and try to accelerate growth, but again, to me that seems like the money factor is more important than animal health.

[dragunov.762]

yes the P is the parental generation and there children are the F1 and there children are F2 ect haha didn't see page 2 sorry

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Glad you brought that up, I have an outcross project I'm doing right now to try and get rid of the bugeye in my albino red sided snakes.

the down side is there is no "instant cash" with this, it takes years to do.

I will not breed a 12 month old snake, they are just not mature enough in my eyes, I prefer 24 months before I breed my snakes.

Some breeders I know of will "power feed" and try to accelerate growth, but again, to me that seems like the money factor is more important than animal health.

power feeding sickens me too mate.i'm sick of reading adverts over here that say. " buy this snake it is a year old and if its fed right you can breed it next year and get twice what you paid for it back off 2 hatchlings easy " these folk make me want to ....... sorry i wont post what im thinking as id more than likely get chucked off this forum.

cheers shaun

[Lankyrob]

Originally Posted by BlindOne

I'm pretty sure that natural inbreeding has been occurring for millions of years with no catastrophic results. As long as the animals are turning out healthy, I see no problems with it. I really enjoy the morphs. I've got anerys, hypos, albinos and normals. All are gorgeous in their own way.

The difference with "natural inbreeding" and captive inbreeding is that in nature the weak/genetically defecient animals are likely to be predated or die off before breeding occurs leaving the "strong" genes to be shared rather than deficient ones