Hook training question - Page 2

**Aaron_S** · 05-05-13, 08:40 PM

Go talk in the photo discussion thread. I've derailed it pretty well.

I don't really have cage decorations in the tubs either so that's a non-issue as well.

I have yet to find any real benefit to the idea of a feeding cage. Snakes feel more secure in their home and thus will likely be better eaters overall in their own enclosure.

JWFugle · 05-05-13, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

Again...not trying to be a DB, but......

What is the benefit? You know...like the benefit of thermostats are to have precise control over the temperatures of your animals that will allow for proper homeostasis of the organism. That is a benefit.

Are there any real benefits...or is just "it seems like a good thing because I learned from someone else?"

Flame away....

then no there isnt really. biggest benefit is to keep them from going into feed mode every time you enter there cage.

smy_749 · 05-05-13, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWFugle

then no there isnt really. biggest benefit is to keep them from going into feed mode every time you enter there cage.

I don't see how that works. If you are going to put him into a feeding enclosure to feed, then you will have to open his enclosure and take him out. Won't he realize that opening the enclosure and taking him out, leads to the tub, and the tub leads to food, so his feeding response will be triggered when you open it to put him in there anyways?

The hook thing turns it off, because you aren't feeding him anything. The feeding tub does....what?

MDT · 05-05-13, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Go talk in the photo discussion thread. I've derailed it pretty well.

I don't really have cage decorations in the tubs either so that's a non-issue as well.

I have yet to find any real benefit to the idea of a feeding cage. Snakes feel more secure in their home and thus will likely be better eaters overall in their own enclosure.

Yep...I agree Aaron, I don't really get it. Seems like a lot of unnecessary work. But that's just me....

RandyRhoads · 05-05-13, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I have yet to see a messy eater snake. Have good prey items, they are never messy. Even if they do get a little messy, I've always found my snakes to eat the guts hanging out if it happens.

There's always a gallon of blood when I feed my Burm, I have permanent blood stains on its enclosure now. But I do feed fresh killed...

Also, the minute I enter the house with the scent of a rabbit she goes into her feeding response, it seems to have nothing to do with where she is, or if there's a hook. If there's food scent within range, stand clear. Once she's done, she's calm again. Maybe that's just Burms, or maybe that's just mine, but I don't see anything "training" her a reality...

Crashcrashboom · 05-06-13, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

The point of hook training is to break the feeding response when you "enter his domain"...there is no need to feed in separate container. You may likely be conditioning him to assoc being removed *from* his cage with food. Feed in his enclosure, if you need to interact w him, use the hook to tap/scoot/nudge him so he assoc that with no food.

That's what I figured! I fed him in his terrarium tonight for the first time. I was just a bit worried feeding him in there because of the substrate. He did manage to get quite a bit of dirt stuck to the mouse and in his mouth while eating this time so I'm hoping it really isn't an issue. I've been using black "ReptiSand" and it looks great, is super easy to clean and helps keep the enclosure from getting too humid- I just don't like that it isn't so easy for him to burrow. I'm thinking of switching to the black aspen and then it shouldn't be as big of an issue with it sticking to the mice anyway. Thanks everyone for the input!

Starbuck · 05-06-13, 03:22 AM

why are you keeping a kingsnake on sand to begin with?

I would switch to regular aspen sooner rather then later; your king will be able to burrow and will feel more secure, plus aspen is very VERY easy to clean, and very very cheap if you buy from a feed store like TSC or agway.
consider that black or dyed aspen is not controlled by any safety organizations, and they dont tell you where the dyes come from/what theyre made of, and you dont really know that much about them.
my .02

Terranaut · 05-06-13, 04:29 AM

Hooks are really not for "hooking"the snake. They are for you touch the snake with so it knows your entry into the viv is not for feeding. So you open the viv and touch the snake with the hook. I use a 18" piece of 1/2"bamboo . So you open the viv. Touch the snake and then reach in with your hand and pick it up or get the water bowl or whatever. When you feed just open the viv and present the prey. Do not touch the snake or bump it with the prey. It should come to you. So then touching after opening the viv = handling and no touch but scent= feeding time. I also believe feeding outside of the enclosure is useless. Not worth the bother. There is no bennefit at all.

**Aaron_S** · 05-06-13, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

There's always a gallon of blood when I feed my Burm, I have permanent blood stains on its enclosure now. But I do feed fresh killed...

Also, the minute I enter the house with the scent of a rabbit she goes into her feeding response, it seems to have nothing to do with where she is, or if there's a hook. If there's food scent within range, stand clear. Once she's done, she's calm again. Maybe that's just Burms, or maybe that's just mine, but I don't see anything "training" her a reality...

Burms have great feeding responses. Your's seems to have a bigger one than most though but meh whatever. Aslong as she eats great.

JWFugle · 05-06-13, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

I don't see how that works. If you are going to put him into a feeding enclosure to feed, then you will have to open his enclosure and take him out. Won't he realize that opening the enclosure and taking him out, leads to the tub, and the tub leads to food, so his feeding response will be triggered when you open it to put him in there anyways?

The hook thing turns it off, because you aren't feeding him anything. The feeding tub does....what?

it works b/c ever time you open the cage, the snake Does Not assume its getting feed, it assumes its getting handled and/or some thing else is happening. the point is the snake learns that its fed in side the tub.

instead of constantly having to turn off the feed response, it trains to turn on the feed response.

BTW this is completely my own opinion but i give credit to snakes being more intelligent then some.

MDT · 05-06-13, 09:44 PM

JWF...just curious....how many snakes do you have? I have 5 and it takes enough time just to feed in the cage...let alone trying to remove each one to feed else where. If you have a butt load of snakes....why make more work for yourself?

Hey, if it works for you, great. Just don't see how it's worth the trouble.

smy_749 · 05-07-13, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWFugle

it works b/c ever time you open the cage, the snake Does Not assume its getting feed, it assumes its getting handled and/or some thing else is happening. the point is the snake learns that its fed in side the tub.

instead of constantly having to turn off the feed response, it trains to turn on the feed response.

BTW this is completely my own opinion but i give credit to snakes being more intelligent then some.

I find it hard to believe you can train a snake to always have his feeding response off until you "turn it on" for him. I get your point, I just don't think it makes any sense. Just because your snake doesn't strike at everything before being put in the tub, doesn't mean he is trained to have his feeding response "turned on". So if you open his cage, you can take him out without issues or biting or excitement? Then you can hold him just fine. And if you place him into the tub, with no scent of rat, and no signs of food in sight, he will still turn into a vicious eating machine?

smy_749 · 05-07-13, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

JWF...just curious....how many snakes do you have? I have 5 and it takes enough time just to feed in the cage...let alone trying to remove each one to feed else where. If you have a butt load of snakes....why make more work for yourself?

Hey, if it works for you, great. Just don't see how it's worth the trouble.

I sat here for 5 minutes trying to figure out what JWF stands for. Just wondering f...? Just what f....? Couldn't think of anything then I saw his username and felt like an idiot. lol

Mark Taylor · 05-07-13, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

I sat here for 5 minutes trying to figure out what JWF stands for. Just wondering f...? Just what f....? Couldn't think of anything then I saw his username and felt like an idiot. lol

JWFugle · 05-07-13, 02:19 PM

haha the same could be thought about yours SMY 749. JWF=Josh W. Fugle

anyways...

Quote:

JWF...just curious....how many snakes do you have? I have 5 and it takes enough time just to feed in the cage...let alone trying to remove each one to feed else where. If you have a butt load of snakes....why make more work for yourself?

i think i said this before but i do only have 3 snakes(2 corns, 1 D retic) so yes i can afford the time, and make a point to take time out of my day to feed them. so yea i completely understand where you guys are coming from owning 5+...10+... 20+... snakes.

Quote:

So if you open his cage, you can take him out without issues or biting or excitement? Then you can hold him just fine. And if you place him into the tub, with no scent of rat, and no signs of food in sight, he will still turn into a vicious eating machine?

and again yes. thats exactly how all 3 of them are. calm and care free when i enter their cage and handle them, move their stuff around w.e. then as soon as i put them in the tub they get the scent and kill strike

whatever comes in next. then after i feed i have gloves that i tap them on the face with to let them know im not food and put them back in their home.

this is deffenatly not possible for everyone. this is just what i do, and thought it was helpful info for the OP.