Repti-links for reptiles - Alternative food source for reptiles

[serpentgirl123]

I am just curious if the nutritional numbers that Repti-link have are accurate? I looked over the nutrient composition article on Rodentpro's site and compared that of Repti-link's for rats and mice and numbers are quite different (in some cases 2-3x lower).


Nutrition Feeder Mice | Nutrient Composition of Feeder Animals

[Tiny Boidae]

For non-processed, vertebrate prey, you would have completely different numbers in comparison to something like Repti-Links. It's like comparing chicken breasts to chicken nuggets, they may essentially come from the same source, but nutritionally speaking one's vastly different than the other. I doubt that the nutritional content on the Repti-Links page is wrong (since the numbers don't seem all that healthy in the first place. Usually when you lie, you lie to make your product seem better).

I mean, I'm all for people trying this and seeing how snakes react to it, but I don't see me switching from whole prey. A snake eats whole, unprocessed prey in the wild, and seeing as they are not yet domnesticated, switching their diet around like that might adversely affect their health. Besides, there's nothing wrong with buying frozen mice for your snakes, and if it ain't broke then don't try and fix it.

[serpentgirl123]

Thank you for the clarification Tiny Boidae, I really appreciate it

Personally I have no reason to change my snakes diet any time soon. I will stick to mice and rats.

But I am curious to see the outcome if others are willing to do that experiment and see the long term results/effects of such a diet.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by kwhitlock

The podcast is insanely informative and a great listen. If they can do as they were saying with making pinkie size, this product will change the game. I'm strongly debating on changing my milk snake to these. If I had a tegu or monitor I would be using these all the time. Skinks as well

They actually just came out with the smaller sized links. I ordered some for my hatchlings(3g sized links)

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Tiny Boidae

For non-processed, vertebrate prey, you would have completely different numbers in comparison to something like Repti-Links. It's like comparing chicken breasts to chicken nuggets, they may essentially come from the same source, but nutritionally speaking one's vastly different than the other. I doubt that the nutritional content on the Repti-Links page is wrong (since the numbers don't seem all that healthy in the first place. Usually when you lie, you lie to make your product seem better).

I mean, I'm all for people trying this and seeing how snakes react to it, but I don't see me switching from whole prey. A snake eats whole, unprocessed prey in the wild, and seeing as they are not yet domnesticated, switching their diet around like that might adversely affect their health. Besides, there's nothing wrong with buying frozen mice for your snakes, and if it ain't broke then don't try and fix it.

These links are whole prey. The only things excluded are hair, and most of the feces/urine. All these links are, as mentioned in the OP are whole animals ground up and stuffed into collagen/protein casings.

[Tiny Boidae]

If it's the exact same thing, then why are the numbers so different? I love the idea of trying to improve a reptile's diet, don't get me wrong, but I think this is a step in the wrong direction. I mean McDonalds chicken nuggets are basically the same thing, just an entire chicken ground up into charismatic little golden patties, but then why are they so unhealthy? I consulted an article for this. (The Truth About Processed Meats by Dr. Loren Cordain | The Paleo Diet : The Paleo Diet?)

"Nevertheless, my initial approach would be to apply the evolutionary template which clearly indicates our hunter gatherer ancestors would have never consumed processed, cured or canned meats. Their staples were the fresh meats, flesh and organs of wild animals along with gathered wild plant foods."

That's my first tally against Repti-Links ; they aren't natural. There's nothing natural about a snake eating a sausage link made on a conveyor belt in some factory somewhere. They're not built for the additives to boost the nutritional content (which, by the way, are dangerously high to be healthy), and to help keep it fresh and free of bugs. I mean ever seen that IAMS cat commerical?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_wxYfWXqw
They're a hunter, give them what they're born to eat. Meow!

"We all know that fresh, raw meats rapidly spoil and can cause illness, gastric distress and diarrhea if left unrefrigerated at room temperatures for long periods. So this fact alone should tip you off to potential health hazards associated with consumption of processed meats, which typically don’t spoil at room temperatures because of their chemical additives... If the chemicals in these meats are “bad” for bacteria, they just might be “bad” for our body’s cells as well."

Second tally. Do you know how meats can be processed like this without going bad? With additives as this author is saying. In order for a meat to be processed, it has to have an additive of some sort so that it doesn't go bad while it's being made. These additives can be incredibly harmful to your health in the long run, and I can only imagine what they'd do to a snake. A snake should not eat processed meat for this reason alone, but there's plenty others.

"Further, consumption of cooked, canned and cured meats causes high levels of advanced glycation end products (AGEs) to accumulate in the bloodstream. As AGEs build up in higher and higher concentrations in the blood they increase the risk for heart disease, cancer and inflammation, a process that underlies virtually all chronic disease. If these events weren’t enough to make you shy away from eating these adulterated meats, they are also concentrated sources of oxidized cholesterol, a potent compound known to promote artery clogging or atherosclerosis."

I'll leave this one up for interpretation...

"One of the original reasons scientists advised us to limit consumption of processed meats was because of their high concentration of nitrites and nitrates. These chemicals are added to salami, lunch meats, bacon, sausages and other processed meats because they inhibit bacteria which cause food borne illnesses while also enhancing the color and flavor of processed meats. Many early scientific studies examining dietary nitrites and nitrates suggested that the metabolism of these compounds in our bodies produced potent cancer causing chemical called nitrosamines. Hence, consumers were advised not to eat processed meats containing nitrites or nitrates. This viewpoint has been challenged in the past decade by a number of researchers who suggest that dietary nitrites and nitrates are actually protective against cancer, heart disease and other illnesses. In the body, these compounds are metabolized to nitric oxide, a chemical which promotes cardiovascular health and has many other therapeutic effects."

All in all, processed foods in general are bad for you, and especially meat. And frankly, if dieticians are advising me not to eat a lot of something, why would I feed it to my snake?

[Mikoh4792]

I'm confused. There are no additives in these links, nor are they cured. The only processing done is grinding. That's it. The animals are sourced from a local organic farm. After grinding, the owners of the business(It's a small business, not a huge factory mass producing links) personally remove the fecal matter and hair, and then stuff them directly into collagen/protein casings. Then they are vacuum sealed and frozen.

Most of these preconceived notions can be dispelled if you just listen to the podcast, or personally speak to the owners who would be more than willing to inform you about what these really are.

[MDT]

i think my experience has been the kcal available to the animal is greater per gram of food...thus less energy expenditure in digestion and more "usable" product. i find i am feeding less frequently and have a steady growth rate in my carpets. my retics are at the point where they are too big for the the 100 gm links, so...back to rats.

Tiny boidae.....to my knowledge (after speaking extensively with the owner), these are not "preserved" meats...where did you get that info?

i get what you're saying about the nitrates, etc used in meat preservation...but i think (i could be wrong) you're mis-informed here. if you'll look at the web site, it states "no preservatives". let me know if you have info to the contrary.

i could talk about bacteria for days, but suffice it to say, reptiles eat some nasty a$$ stuff. the gut bacteria of whole prey rodents would pose a similar problem that you raise concern about. gastric HCl and other enzymes make short work of those potential pathogens, and likewise would do the same for a ground product.

[prairiepanda]

Originally Posted by Tiny Boidae

If it's the exact same thing, then why are the numbers so different?

Because the Repti-links aren't made of rats/mice, which is what they're being compared to. If they were made of rats/mice, then the numbers would be very close to the same(might be some differences due to the removal of intestinal contents, but that varies quite a lot due to differences in feeder diets anyway)

[jarich]

Ya, I think comparing these to chicken nuggets is a pretty bad analogy. These guys are pretty knowledgable and seem to have come up with a decent product. The only concerns I see are A) They do not include the digestive tract for obvious reasons. However, this is where a great deal of nutrition actually comes from. B) For nearly all reptiles, doubling the amount of fat is not a good thing. Most captive reptiles are lazy and already overfed, doubling the amount of fat does not seem like a good thing nutritionally. C) Most reptiles also get the majority of their water intake from food. The moisture content of these does not seem as high. Perhaps not a problem, but it is a little concerning if your reptile does not readily drink from its water dish.

Other than that I think it looks like a decent product.

[Mikoh4792]

Jarich these do contain the digestive tract, just not all the feces that usually come with it in rats and mice. All of the organs are included.

[jarich]

Unless Im mistaken, I remembered them saying that all organs except the intestines were included. They cant include the intestines because of bacterial infection.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by jarich

Unless Im mistaken, I remembered them saying that all organs except the intestines were included. They cant include the intestines because of bacterial infection.

I have confirmed with them just now that they only take out the feces, but still leave in the intestines.

[MDT]

You guys realize that only herpers could get away with this conversation, right?

[Mikoh4792]

Haha so true!