What happens if you cross a carpet to a woma? (dialup)

[Wizwise2000]

LdyDrgn,
Can't wait to see more of them

Boakid, Gregg,
I may not be a Hybrid But it's still just a battle of opinions.
Yours against someone elses, against anothers etc. I'm not big on Hybrids like I said, but that's one darn cute looking animal.

Shane.

[Gregg M]

Shane, it can not be an opinion...... Humans are the same species no matter what continent they come from..... Outcrossing within the same species is far different from the hybridization of two separate species...... There is no opinion in that..... It is fact.....

In all honesty that was a rather silly comparison...... Like I said, apples and hotdogs..... Anything similar between the two besides them being a food item???? NO!!

[Wizwise2000]

Laugh, sorry Gregg, I meant about the thread, not the hybrid human thing

Shane

[Gregg M]

Oh, I see.... But if it is only opinion that hybrids are normaly weaker animals in a genetic and physical way, why are there so many problems with them being produced, hatched and kept alive past the first year???? Is it also an opinion that hybrid snakes have no benifit for the captive poulation and are made so some greedy breeder can make alot of quick cash??? I think that is pretty much what hybridization is all about and there is plenty of proof of that......

So 5 of these hybrids are alive out of 21 eggs..... That does not seem alittle odd to you???? Not even one third of the clutch lived.... So now I ask you this...... Are all of those dead eggs and dead babies worth it to bring 5 snakes into the world that will most likely suffer major health problems down the line????

That tells you something about a persons ethics in the reptile community.....

[Wizwise2000]

Very good points Gregg. Yes it seems odd to me, same as the Bateater thing seems odd too. The main point really is weather it's worth it to have have all those dead babies to get a few alive.
And the answer to this question is absolutely no. It's wrong.

Good point Gregg. My hat's off to you.

Shane.

[ravensgait]

I think the point about the eggs and number of babies that hatched was mentioned before, if you want to see take a look back a bunch of pages. Seeing as it is possible that any animal could lay 20 infertile eggs your point is moot Gregg . Without knowing much about this litter any speculation about them is useless.

As to why the owner of the litter(NERD) don't reply here ? Gee look at the comments that have been made here. Gregg and others want to kill the little things ETC ETC .

Hey Gregg just picked up a gravid high yellow carpet female she was bred to a Canary Chondro!!!! LOLOL

Randy

[Wizwise2000]

Also a very good point, maybe the next breeding will have 100% hatch rate?

Shane.

[LdyDrgn]

I will say again that it isn't all about money. It's purely curiosity. Can it be done? Apparantly it can....

What people knew about genetics is being turned on its ear. There is no way that they should be able to reproduce whatsover according to studies done years ago. There are hybrids that are reproducing. Who knew???

That being said, consider this: 15 years ago the way to keep snakes was in aquariums with gravel and hot rocks. Things have changed GREATLY in the past 2 decades in regards to how these animals are kept and how they are gestated.

There are biologists that are thrilled with this.. not upset.

I could easily argue for and against it. Just as I could argue for and against inbreeding and many other touchy subjects. I just wanted to throw a couple of obversations out there.

[atropabelladona]

Originally posted by LdyDrgn
I will say again that it isn't all about money. It's purely curiosity. Can it be done? Apparantly it can....

What people knew about genetics is being turned on its ear. There is no way that they should be able to reproduce whatsover according to studies done years ago. There are hybrids that are reproducing. Who knew???

There are biologists that are thrilled with this.. not upset.

When hybrid DNA is formed, say for example a mouse human hybrid cell culture, the double helix doesn't line up 100% because the alleles are not in the same order, introns and exons don't correspond, etc etc etc. We already know this about any hybrid and we certainly don't need a reptile hybrid to prove it. We will see how long these animals live, and maybe if their internal anatomy is normal or not when they die, but until then, its all speculation that the DNA of these hybrids is sound or unsound (although with such phenotypically different parents my money is unstable), etc.

[atropabelladona]

*my money is ON unstable

[Gregg M]

Originally posted by Wizwise2000
Also a very good point, maybe the next breeding will have 100% hatch rate?

Shane.

Yeah, maybe but it is highly doubtful...... When less than one third of a clutch lives there are serious problems with either the captive husbandry, incubation methods, or the genetics are not right......

My bet is that it is a combo of all but mostly the genetics are not lining up....... Either way it still tells you how unethical and irresponsible NERD is for even attempting something like this.....

DrgnLdy,
why would you say it is not for the money???? Its all about the money....... And is it right to do something just because you want to see if it can be done...... Would it be cool for me inject growth hormones into a bunch garter snakes to "see" if they can get ball python sized???? Would it be fair for me to risk the health of all those snakes to satisfy my curiosity????

Yeah, I guess this cross can be done, but at what cost??? The cost was 16 eggs that would have been viable if it were a same species breeding......

Ravensgait,
Good for you and your carpet..... I hope she lays an entire clutch of slugs for you...... It figures you would have do buy a snake that was already bred to make up for your lack of experiance....LOL

[Gregg M]

Originally posted by atropabelladona
When hybrid DNA is formed, say for example a mouse human hybrid cell culture, the double helix doesn't line up 100% because the alleles are not in the same order, introns and exons don't correspond, etc etc etc. We already know this about any hybrid and we certainly don't need a reptile hybrid to prove it. We will see how long these animals live, and maybe if their internal anatomy is normal or not when they die, but until then, its all speculation that the DNA of these hybrids is sound or unsound (although with such phenotypically different parents my money is unstable), etc.

Just to give an example of what she is talking about here is a simple diagram.....

Woma X Woma DNA strand
llll ll lll llll ll llll
llll ll lll llll ll llll

Woma X Carpet strand
llll ll lll llll ll llll
ll llll ll l llll lll lll l

[ravensgait]

Gregg's logic or lack there of, Don't do anything just to do it . Sent men to the moon was it necessary ? but look at all the good useful and necessary stuff that were a by product, Guess if it were left up to Gregg it wouldn't have happened. Climb a mountain just because it is there and you want to! Gregg's Logic says nope shouldn't do it. Science in Gregg's world? Nope because most of it was done just to see if it could be or because someone just wanted to see what would happen.

Why would you say it is not the money? well it would seem that you expect everyone to have the same motives and morals as yourself Gregg.

LMAO Greg though not much else you hold a certain entertainment value. I didn't have DO buy it. lol
Randy

[Wizwise2000]

I think I understand what Gregg is saying. It makes sense.
Thank you Gregg.

Shane

[Gregg M]

Shane,
I am happy to bring things to light for you alittle...... I know things can get a bit cloudy when people are fighting back and forth......

Ravensgait,
It is fairly obvious that you can not find fault in my logic so you have to spin it around, put words in my mouth and make fun of my type-Os..... What a winner you are......

So tell me and everyone else what my morals and motives are exactly.....

So there is something moraly wrong with not liking a greedy breeder doing a "scientific experiment" in their basement that was not calculated or did not have any substance to it???? It is wrong to be against someone doing an experiment that left 16 eggs dead that would have been fertile if the breeding was between a woma and a woma?????

Oh wait, it must be wrong of me not to support people that want to "see" what happens when you cross two totally differnt species at the expence of the snakes them selves......

How many other people told you so far, you sound like an idiot.....
With every post it is very clear that you are clear headed.....

Every single time you tried to "back" you claims, they got shot down fast because of you lack of knowledge on this and many other subjects......

Disprove what I am saying...... Go ahead...... Oh wait, you cant because you dont know anything..... Instead you just try to make fun of my spelling......

You are a funny kid...... Other people with degrees, years of schooling, and even more years of HANDS ON EXPERIANCE have backed up everything I said...... All you have are notes from breeders doing basement, mad scientist type experiments..... How many of those experiments do you think went real bad before they got a few individuals to live...... Alot more than any of them would care to admit......

Man, everytime you post and I answer it is much easier to see how FOS you are and how little you actually know......

We are talking about snakes here, not moon walks or mountain climbing...... Where do you pull these rediculous, way off topic comparisons from?????

It is obvious that people with a brain in their head can see exactly what the problems are and how disruptive it can be for the snakes on a biological and physical level......

For some reason you are having a very hard time grasping what the truth is....... You are way clouded up...... You must realy love you hybrids.......

So again, tell me and everyone, what my motives and morals are.....

This should be funny.....