Monitor enclosure discussion thread

[crocdoc]

I think 'pathological' is the key word. His need to be seen as the expert and his desire to put everyone else down to maintain that status in his mind does suggest a pathology. It's not hard to find examples of him doing complete 180 degree turns in things he says to avoid being seen as having done something 'wrong'.

He gets away with it by choosing his audience. The posters on his forum have two things in common: Not a single one of them has seen a monitor in the wild (so they'll accept anything he says about wild monitors and the biologists that study them) and most have very little experience with breeding monitors. The ones that do have sent me emails telling me what they really think.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by crocdoc

The ones that do have sent me emails telling me what they really think.

No emails here, I shout it from moutain tops.

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by crocdoc

Lankyrob and Korbin, if you were to look at my original post on this topic, you'd see that it wasn't an all out bash but simply me trying to set Moe straight on whether deep substrate was something that's simply useful in captivity vs used by all monitors in the wild yet only observed by 'some'.

Actually I missed all of that. Wayne set me straight though.

Thanks Wayne for making sound less stupid than I am.

Also I thought it was a well established fact that the ape was watching unicorns? Has he changed his statement again? Does he have proof of this new success of his? Hahahaha.
Sir.

[mo9e64]

I just got 8 private messages from 8 different people supporting me,i'm lying of coarse because Wayne can read my supposedly private messages.But lets say i did,firstly they are private i would respect that and secondly it would be heresay.I'm surprised nobody caught CrocDoc's hypocricy-I belieive his claims,but isn't that being hypocritical a objective moderator would have caught that and pointed it out in the very least.I don't feel i'm being bashed just used to bash someone else-but hey that's just an ethical technicality,or a stacked deck of cards.

[crocdoc]

Moe, your post doesn't make any sense - perhaps if you provide more details we can actually discuss it.

Originally Posted by mo9e64

I just got 8 private messages from 8 different people supporting me

Supporting you with what? That all monitors burrow in the wild?

Originally Posted by mo9e64

I'm surprised nobody caught CrocDoc's hypocricy-I belieive his claims,but isn't that being hypocritical a objective moderator would have caught that and pointed it out in the very least.

What's my hypocrisy? What are my claims?

This isn't an attack, I just need more details so I know exactly what it is you're saying.

I also find it a bit lame that your mates are too frightened to say what they think on here, instead of via PMs. If they have information on wild monitors that the rest of us are unaware of, why wouldn't they want to share that here?

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by mo9e64

I just got 8 private messages from 8 different people supporting me,i'm lying of coarse because Wayne can read my supposedly private messages.But lets say i did,firstly they are private i would respect that and secondly it would be heresay.I'm surprised nobody caught CrocDoc's hypocricy-I belieive his claims,but isn't that being hypocritical a objective moderator would have caught that and pointed it out in the very least.I don't feel i'm being bashed just used to bash someone else-but hey that's just an ethical technicality,or a stacked deck of cards.

Even though administration can read PM messages, unless foul play is suspected (like poaching members to another forum) we simply don't.

In fact I just banned a member for posting his PM's on facebook.

Calling David a hypocrite? uhm OK.. whatever.

How many Varanid documentaries have FR in the closing credits??? I have yet to watch one.

[crocdoc]

Ah, sorry, I missed Moe's point. He's saying that I'm lying about my claims about getting PMs from people telling me what they really think, therefore his hypothetical example of getting 8 PMs from people supporting him.

No, I'm not going to reveal who those people are or what they have said because that would betray their confidence in the privacy of our exchanges. However, anyone that knows me from the forums over the years, whether they think I'm an arrogant _____ or a nice guy, will still get an idea of whether or not I've ever felt the need to lie about what I've seen or haven't seen, what I've bred or haven't bred or even what people have said to me or haven't said to me, in private or otherwise. I haven't felt the need to lie because I don't have a pathological desire to maintain a particular 'status' on the forums, so the idea of lying wouldn't even enter my head. Why on earth would I make that stuff up?

However, if you want examples of the stuff that is on public display, such as the 180 degree turns (or anything else) I've mentioned, I'm happy to provide those on here. With links, quotes, the lot. Where moderators of other forums haven't carefully removed them, of course, for we've all seen that happen.

The important thing isn't who has more people on their team and who is getting more PMs of support, anyway. It's about the information. This didn't start as a bashing - it started as me correcting the information you had provided on deep substrate and burrowing in monitors. Why not just tell us the source of your information about all monitors being burrowers in the wild or that this was 'discovered' and applied to captivity only after many years of people ignoring it because of an inbuilt 'fault' in humans, so we know that this isn't a sign of insidious creep from elsewhere? That's how all of this started, long before it became a bashing. Here's your chance to diffuse it. Show us the source and if it didn't come from your mate I'll apologise for thinking it did.

[mo9e64]

Dave,i'm not calling you a liar, i believe you got them and what you say their content was,just that without producing them they are just hearsay.Hearsay is not evidence,was all i was saying.

[infernalis]

Hearsay is he said, she said.

When it's "I said" and the source is credible, we call that testimony.

Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience. When submitted as evidence, such statements are called hearsay evidence

With this definition in hand, repeating what "someone else" has posted on another forum without actually experiencing it yourself is hearsay.

testimony is a solemn attestation as to the truth of a matter

The words "testimony" and "testify" both have a root in the Latin testis, which is normally translated "witness".

Therefore by definition, what David has witnessed with his own eyes VS assumptions made by reading something that someone with far less credibility has written on another forum, I would put my money on the credible witness any day.

[crocdoc]

Moe, if that's all that stands between you separating my credibility from that of your mate (and therefore making me a hypocrite in your eyes), shoot me an email and I'll forward some examples on two provisos:

1. You do not repeat anything said in those emails, or tell anyone who sent them, either here on the other forum(s) you frequent.

2. You delete them after you read them.

Herein lies the difference between your mate and me. I don't make bold claims about things I can't support. I'm about to head out of town for a couple of days, but next week I should have time to go through my outlook folders and find some juicy ones for you, if that floats your boat.

This is me extending my trust to you. Betray that trust and the next forum bashing will not be directed at your mate.

It is still way off topic and not addressing the source of the 'all monitors burrow in the wild' and 'no one noticed before because of an inbuilt default of humans' statements, though.

[jarich]

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

In that case matey out of interest do you think im to... Harsh with my advice?

Sorry mate, been a bit busy and just spotted this. No I don't think you are. You are openly knowledgable, and even occasionally blunt, but you still have an awareness of how you're coming across, and retain the ability to allow for differing opinions. Which is the point. It's kind of like that saying, if you're worried about being crazy, you're probably not. Likewise, if you're concerned about being too harsh, you're probably not.

[DiscoPat]

I recently noticed a lot of tiny baby crickets in my enclosure. I am unsure how to feel about this. Is it a bad thing or..?

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by DiscoPat

I recently noticed a lot of tiny baby crickets in my enclosure. I am unsure how to feel about this. Is it a bad thing or..?

Cleanup crew...

Crickets eat waste.

[DiscoPat]

So it is a good thing or does it mean I should clean the cage more? or does it mean I will have to clean it less.

[infernalis]

Clean less.

Crickets will even eat poop.