What happens if you cross a carpet to a woma? (dialup)

[ravensgait]

Jeff they are not like dogs but they do have personalities and a sense of Humor. One of our Stallions will stop eating if I'm gone more than a few days , guess he misses me. They can get attached just like dogs do, not as smart but fun none the less.
A lot more upkeep than a snake but then you can't ride a snake down to the store and besides women don't often get warm and fuzzy over a snake but most really like horses lol most of them are my wife's!! Randy

[M_surinamensis]

A species is still defined as a NATURALLY interbreeding population of animals. The key part is the natural aspect; while closely related species that have had isolating instincts ******** or even outright abused in captivity may prove to be interfertile, this has NOTHING to do with how they're defined taxonomically.

The people creating hybrids for sale aren't doing a single damn thing for scientific purposes. There are far too many variables and far too many uncontrollable factors to make these filthy abominations "science" and they are absolutely meaningless taxonomically.

Raven... you've been given at least three or four signifigant and well evidenced reasons for the negatives of hybrid creation, haven't done a single damn thing to prove any of them incorrect, argued about something YOU clearly do not understand as taxonomic subjectiveness and the way the designations are assigned is broken down and frankly... come across like kind of a raving idiot.

So "Randy" from Texas... before going any further... I'd like to know what your last name is. 'cause I've got a sneaking suspicion you're well known for being a mouthy dumbass elsewhere and would like to see if I can confirm it.

Edit: The censored word was one synonymous with "inhibited" but apparantly it's been used in the offensive vernacular and ended up on a list someplace.

[ravensgait]

Semanus LAMO , My last name is Mackey. Shouldn't be to hard for someone to know! I use the same name Ravensgait on every forum but I guess you couldn't figure that out.

Careful your prejudices are really showing! Ah another who believes we should all think and do as he wants, well if he does actually think one wonders after reading his post.

Now I really get a kick out people like you LOL I guess you just couldn't figure out my instructions on how to find the info or let me guess you left clicked on the links and they didn't work. Sorry you have so much trouble doing simple task. I think there are classes available that may if you try real hard help you with your problems well some of them anyway.

Gee you add nothing but BS to the thread but then again most of it has been that. Here lets see if you can figure out what animal this is and no it's not a snake.

The simple fact is you moron that your not right, Greggs not right and I'm not right, already said that. Anyway in this case we'll have to wait and see if these Woma/Carpet grow up healthy and can reproduce then they will be a successful inter grade if not then they will just be another hybrid that didn't work. But then you and your b buddy just want them to die die die lol ever wonder how statements like that make you look? Just like Gregg you hate just to hate , in your small little world I guess you feel it makes you something, not sure what it is and really don't want to know.
Randy

[Jeff_Favelle]

Coo, pic! That thing looks HUGE!!!!!!!!!

Not to nitpick but:

we'll have to wait and see if these Woma/Carpet grow up healthy and can reproduce then they will be a successful inter grade if not

These won't be intergrades. Intergrades are same species, different sub populations breeding together. (ie. different subspecies breeding together). These aren't the same species. Heck, they aren't even in the same genus!

Carry on. This is the most viewed thread EVER! Helluva advertisement for NERD! LOL!

[Gregg M]

Now seamus is a moron and he has nothing to add to this thread???? LOL..... See if you ask anyone arond these forums, about seamus, you will see that he is a very respected member of the reptile keeping community.....

Notice how all of your little buddies just up and left???? Maybe it is because they realize they have not a single leg to stand on when it comes to this topic...... Like I said, the references you provided are from hybrid breeders..... They need to sell their crappy product so you know they will not give you the VERY REAL down sides to the mutt snakes.....

What seamus and I provide is real info from experiance, animals we have seen, and real scientific study......

You are nobody that knows absolutly nothing on this topic and apparently most other topics involving reptiles..... Why dont you go off to one of those horse forums??? I am assuming you know more about horses than you do reptiles.... Stick to what you know...... You dont hear me telling you how to care for horses, right???? Thats because I know as much about horses as you do reptiles..... And that is absolutly nothing.....LOL

[Yasser]

I just stopped by to check on this thread. Still going at it huh, Gregg?Still haven't provided any of that proof huh, Gregg?

The only reason I haven't come back around to this is because it involves you and your offensive, non-scientific demeanor. The name calling and undocumented accusations just got boring.
I now realize you are loving all this attention so therefore I choose not to reward the bad behavior. Just like I do with my children. I am amazed at how quickly this turned into a pissing match. Now you are making assumptions about the education and intellignece of others. What's next? Making fun of folks medical conditions?
You've really stooped. So low I forgot you were there.
So much for an educated argument.

-Yasser

[atropabelladona]

Ok some more reasons not to hybridize.
Genetics code for physical attributes, and among those are digestive and other enzymes, organ location, that kind of thing.

Not to mention, when you hybridize species (like australian pythons) with a limited number of "founder" lines and no possibility to legally add more (wildcaught) bloodlines to the mix, each allele that each snake has is extremely important to the whole population because no other snake may have it.

When you hybridize these animals and don't breed them within their species, you essentially eliminate their alleles from the gene pool in captivity. Add to that, you can never restore them from a hybridized animal without also introducing genes from another species, thus "contaminating the gene pool."

[atropabelladona]

durrrr. Forgot to mention that when you've got conflicting genes from different species about enzyme conformation or organ location, some strange things can happen.

[ravensgait]

Jeff yes , no, maybe, it would seem that some in this field believe or think that if they can breed without using AI ETC. in other words the snakes get it on lol, that they may be more closely related than has been thought. here again DNA testing would provided better answers.

That's PC he's 15.2 hands(4 inches in a hand) A horse of a different color and a strange sense of humor. Champagne and White TWH
Randy

[Gregg M]

Yasser, I have yet to call anyone a name.... Infact a few people feel it is required to call me names...... Read back a few pages..... Yasser, why must you talk from your hind quarters..... Oh wait, I know, you produce hybrids, thats why...... I gave very logical, proven reasons not to produce hybrids, and not one of you, can give a good reason to produce them......

I gave my reasons and all I got in return was that I have an ego, I am an a$$hole, I am a liar, I do not know what I am talking about, I am a moron, People making fun of the spelling of my name, trying to find errors in my spelling, I am funny, I am a joke, I sound like I am from PETA, and so on.....
But in your eyes, I am the one who is stooping low..... That shows everyone exactly where your head is.....

Oh wait how can I forget, we are getting pro hybid views from people who produce them, have next to no experiance with reptiles, cant tell the difference between genus, species, and subspecies...... LOL..... Someone tried to use dog breeds to push their "hybrid vigor" view.....LOL, all breeds of dog are the same species, so it is not an example of hybrids at all....... Now is it????

Oh yeah lets not forget how the Africanized honey bees are a benefit to us.....LOL You have got to be joking me..... Yasser, my friend, you are way out gunned in this debate....... I will tell you how...... The people who are not fine with hybrids are educated, highly experianced snake keepers that know something about taxology, natural history, and the biology of these animals......

Here are the people on your side......
The uneducated and the inexperianced...... You also have people that want a "cool lookin snake, dude"....... Ummmmm Oh yeah the greedy breeders that produce them, and ummmmm, oh yeah, ravensgait and Invictus, who has been in the hobby for two years.......LOL

I will be the first to admit, I am not good with typing words or with words in general, but my education, experiance, and contributions to the keeping of reptiles says everything about me and what I stand for.... Go to any of the forums if you want to see what kind of person I am......

Your stance on hybrids says alot about you and the type of keeper/breeder you are...... An unethical, irresponcible one, at best.......

[M_surinamensis]

So Kara... how many of these are still alive?

[Gregg M]

Seamus, I wonder why you need to keep asking that same question over and over...... LOL Is this the third time with no answer????

[ravensgait]

Ya wonder why people get upset boys ? well here take a look at a few things you've said.

Seamus's first post--Here's hoping that the seven which managed to hatch (a 33% hatch rate should be a strong indicator that this isn't right) have internal deformities that kill 'em off within the next couple weeks.--
Part of Greggs first post--but this is just sickening..... They should be fed to a monitor or king cobra..... Heres to hoping they are all unable to reproduce--
Part of his second post--Like I said, they should be used as feeders..... --

Parts of Seamus's second post-(Kara, I demand you comply with my personal moral views this instant) ----If you *can't* see why it's morally and ethically objectionable... well then I think you're a little on the dim side.--
Parts of Greggs 3rd post--I think alot of people are just too stupid to see the problem with this---I do hope that they are culled somehow--
and Gregg's next post---If that is really what you think than it is obvious you do not know what you are talking about...----Anyone with a half a brain can see this and the other obvious problem that come along with hybrids..... Feeders is what they should be used for......--
And parts from another post of Gregg's---Dirty, this hybrid being wrong is not an opinion...... It is ethicaly, morally, and naturally wrong...... It goes against nature...----The people that created these Frankenstien snakes are def off my list of people to buy from and I will make sure everyone I know (which is quite alot) knows about the questionable antics going on.....---

Yasser weighs in, part of his post---You can justify your beliefs all you want by dragging in YOUR morals and YOUR ethics and YOUR beliefs in what YOU think Mother Nature NEEDS. But don't push that crap on me becasue I have MY own beliefs and morals. This is free society the last time I checked. You fight your "good" fight and I'll fight mine. ---

Seems I'm not the only one who doesn't like little Hitlers telling me what I should think,do, feel or believe.

I'll note that up to this point Gregg and Seamus are the only ones offering insults and belittling other posters.

First negative post in reply to Gregg and Seamus, if you can call it negative.
Mark said---I was going to post again in similar fashion, but its far more entertaining just to read Gregg's posts LMAO Only one I see with a God Complex is him. --

Greenman said-Again, here's a soap box, take it out to the corner and have a blast.--

Don't know that I'd call that negative. then he said this---Ah yes, the personal attacks to prove how obviously superior your mental capacity is. Yes that’s it, keep proving your amazing intellect. Ooohhh Ahhh, so very smart.--
Which is true to a certain extent you do keep mentioning your intellect Gregg and how much you know and telling others how little they know.


Another part of one of Gregg's post, and he wonders why people get upset with him lol up to this point Gregg you are the only one insulting others and calling them names--Anyone have any cheap hybrids for sale???? I have a king cobra that needs to eat.......--

Greenman gave a definition of pompous and As$ and that got you really going Gregg here is part of your next post ---And to tell you the truth, I am not totally against the legislation that has been going on...... It is apparent that not everyone should have the right to work with reptiles....... ---
Bet you never gave it a thought that if they do regulate snakes that HOTs will be first on the list lol

part of the same post---Also, what exactly are you saying greenman???? Be a man and say it out right...... Grow a pair of nutz and stop beating around the bush...... Am I a pompus *** because I am educated or just a bit sharper than yourself????--

I'd say your were being obnoxious ETC. From another of your post Gregg----I think death by king cobra would be much more humane than to let a hybrid live deformed life..... --

Still wanting to kill other peoples animals.

And Gregg said--Why do alot of people breeding reptiles feel the need to alter the natural state of an animal to suite their needs.--

Well we all alter their natural state we keep them Daa.

Well I could keep pasting more of your BS guys but it's like this your both came in insulting and belittling others till they had enough and replied to you in the same manner you were talking to them (us)
You keep on about scientific fact but post nothing other than your own words to substantiate what you say.

Gregg you keep going on about how much you know (and how stupid everyone else here is) and wonder why people reply to you in the same manner in which you speak to them(us)

Seamenus you come after me and wonder why I reply to you the same way?
Um boys go back and read the whole thread and maybe just maybe you'll have a clue why I and others here think your full of it. If you could have been responsible and informative in your responses that would be one thing. But instead you tried to shove your morals and beliefs down everyones throats and insulted anyone who posted a differing opinion than yours.
So keep it up boys keeps me from being too bored.

"Never argue with an Idiot! they will drag you down to their level and beat you with it."

Well I was bored so I argued with the Idiots I guess that makes me just as big a fool as they are. LMAO
Randy
Randy

[Jeff_Favelle]

Part of Greggs first post--but this is just sickening..... They should be fed to a monitor or king cobra.....

Being a "snake guy" I could never do it, but its kind of hypocritical for us to say that its "SICK" to feed a snake to a snake, yet we're ok offing thousands of rodents per year with higher brain functions than most reptiles? Kind of a double standard, don't you think?

But I'm not one to talk. I was up until 3:15am last night and I fed 118 rats and 47 mice. Yikes. That's a LOT of lives.

[ravensgait]

Jeff would be one thing if they were his but to say you want to feed someone else animal to yours??? Going a bit far don't ya think???

You get the impression from his writing that if he had them in front of him Gregg would step on them.

Tonights my feeding night, one course meals- Rodent-.
Randy