Savannah Monitor diet debate thread

[mo9e64]

You are right nobody is breeding the same female multiple times.Frank Retes says sometimes you don't see reproductive problems till up to the third clutch-these deathes caused by husbandry issues.i think the error is thinking Sav's are different than any other monitor.few would disagree that Prasinus are not a more difficult monitor to keep-yet they are being kept successfully feeding mice or lizards whole prey items-the only thing that hasn't lead to their success in breeding is nobody seems to have figured out their nesting preferences.
The area of reproductive problems is an area not covered because people don't get that far.and from discussions i have with people that understand this area,it contradicts alot of what is said-such under proper conditions female monitors need alot of food-these animals in the wild search and feed -and stop feeding when their needs are met.but if kept in conditions that are not acceptable they will continue feeding and store fat, be lethargic, if it's too cold or dry ,and starve if they aren't fed enough in hotter conditions.
The context of what i am saying is under proper husbandry-so exercise as many will interject is included.

[sickvenom]

Originally Posted by Max713

Because you are a knowledgeable and responsible owner

rodents are fine for them as an occasional treat.

[infernalis]

I honestly fail to see what "treat" has to do with it??

He dives on Jumbo shrimp with gusto, so they must be a treat, He can't resist night crawlers, so they must be a treat.. Etc.

Easter is right around the corner, Should I colour some eggs and put them in a basket for him??

[sickvenom]

Originally Posted by infernalis

I honestly fail to see what "treat" has to do with it??

He dives on Jumbo shrimp with gusto, so they must be a treat, He can't resist night crawlers, so they must be a treat.. Etc.

Easter is right around the corner, Should I colour some eggs and put them in a basket for him??

I used to own a lot of savannahs back in the mid 90s. Back then we were feeding them a lot of rodents. Then reports came out about fld, so we cut back to once every month or two. I believe rodents are important in moderation, only to provide a variety. Unless there have been newer studies since 2000, that I am not aware of, I do not see any harm in feeding savs a rodent here or there. Do you have information that I don't have? I haven't owned any since 2000 therefore I am not up to date. Please inform me if you know something I don't. That would be a better approach than having max713 imply I'm not knowledgeable.

[Max713]

Where did I say you weren't knowledgeable? You're a reading too far into an 8 word sentence that wasn't even aimed in your direction.
All I was indicating is that Infernalis is a knowledgeable and responsible owner, that doesn't feed rodents as he knows it's not in their best interest health wise.
If your only reason for feeding rodents every month or two is to provide variety, I don't see the point. There are so many other things you can offer to add variety to the diet, and as Wayne said, there are plenty of other things a Sav would consider just as much of a "treat".
I'm sure there would be no harm in feeding a rodent every month or two, but I fail to see the benefit as well, other than for the personal enjoyment of the owner.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by sickvenom

That would be a better approach than having max713 imply I'm not knowledgeable.

Excellent point made.. A compliment directed toward one person should never be perceived as an insult directed at another.

May I ask you this? If you and a friend were at a club/bar/pub and a hot lady/guy (whatever) said your friend was cute, would you jump right in with "so I must be ugly"?? "what does he have that I don't"?? because if you did, I can assure you this, in time even the best friend in the world will tire of hearing it.

************************************************** ********

Now for variety. I feed Chomper this menu.

Raw jumbo unpeeled shrimp (Arthropod, same as insects) Expensive, but I don't care..

Dubia Roaches, Crayfish, Night crawlers, trout and venison.

The only "study" I need is Daniel Bennett's findings while actually in the African Savannah plains. Of 200 monitors who's stomach contents were examined, only one was found to contain any evidence of consuming vertebrate prey, 199 of them had only consumed arthropods and worms.

Now I ask, who knows better? Mother nature & evolution, or the human beings who thoughtlessly capture these wild animals for their own personal amusement and/or financial gain??

There may be no harm in feeding the occasional rodent, but there is also no harm in refraining to do so.

[Max713]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Excellent point made..

Thanks Wayne.

************************************************** ********

Now for variety. I feed Chomper this menu.

Raw jumbo unpeeled shrimp (Arthropod, same as insects) Expensive, but I don't care..

Dubia Roaches, Crayfish, Night crawlers, trout and venison.

The only "study" I need is Daniel Bennett's findings while actually in the African Savannah plains. Of 200 monitors who's stomach contents were examined, only one was found to contain any evidence of consuming vertebrate prey, 199 of them had only consumed arthropods and worms.

Now I ask, who knows better? Mother nature & evolution, or the human beings who thoughtlessly capture these wild animals for their own personal amusement and/or financial gain??

There may be no harm in feeding the occasional rodent, but there is also no harm in refraining to do so.

Sounds like Chomper is quite the spoiled Sav!
Thanks for the Daniel Bannett info, I think I'll be referencing this new info when arguing the disadvantages of feeding rodents, to new or rather inexperienced owners.

[sickvenom]

Originally Posted by Max713

Where did I say you weren't knowledgeable? You're a reading too far into an 8 word sentence that wasn't even aimed in your direction.
All I was indicating is that Infernalis is a knowledgeable and responsible owner, that doesn't feed rodents as he knows it's not in their best interest health wise.
If your only reason for feeding rodents every month or two is to provide variety, I don't see the point. There are so many other things you can offer to add variety to the diet, and as Wayne said, there are plenty of other things a Sav would consider just as much of a "treat".
I'm sure there would be no harm in feeding a rodent every month or two, but I fail to see the benefit as well, other than for the personal enjoyment of the owner.

Maybe it was just the timing of your post. If I have falsely accused you, then I apologize.

[mo9e64]

I don't know why i do this to myself,but.There is nothing wrong with feeding Sav's exclusively rodents in the context of proper husbandry.Negative results are the result of improper husbandry.Sorry Wayne, nothing you feed your monitor,at least listed is part of a Sav's natural diet,but you are experiencing success. Moe

[infernalis]

Find me a source for steady african insects, I'll buy some.

The Savannah Monitor, as such, is an invertebrate feeder, foraging almost solely on insects, as well as mollusks and crustaceans. In this manner, this monitor occupies a very small niche in the monitor world. Unlike almost all other monitors, it has never been found to be an “opportunistic feeder”, nor is it the “garbage disposal” that other monitors have a reputation for being. Given all prey options, it specifically hunts down invertebrates, and only invertebrates.

Food choice and frequency seems to be an area of high controversy. To avoid simply stating opinion, we will always go back to study the animal’s behavior in the wild. As previously stated, the monitor itself is the greatest teacher. In feeding, the monitor keeper does not need to reinvent the wheel and come up with wild concoctions and diets. In the wild, the monitor eats what is nutritionally best, and our job as responsible keepers is to try to reproduce this as best we can.

Say what you want, I am not going to sway from what nature/evolution/god or whatever you chose to believe in has already mandated.

More soon Moe... I'm digging just for you

Cool, slugs and snails are listed, I have tons of those.....

[Little Wise Owl]

Originally Posted by mo9e64

.Sorry Wayne, nothing you feed your monitor,at least listed is part of a Sav's natural diet,but you are experiencing success. Moe

And rodents are...?

Goodness, it seems that any Savannah Monitor thread is unable to avoid the rodent/no rodoent argument.

Wayne, Chomper looks fantastic and you're doing a wonderful job with him.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Little Wise Owl

And rodents are...?

Goodness, it seems that any Savannah Monitor thread is unable to avoid the rodent/no rodoent argument.

Wayne, Chomper looks fantastic and you're doing a wonderful job with him.

Thanks so much.

Since their natural physiology is not geared toward rodents, why would I feed them to my beloved pet??

[Little Wise Owl]

My thoughts exactly.

[Jay]

I highly doubt a monitor in the wild eats whats nutritionally best vs readily available prey. Unlike most monitor owners I will agree with both diets but why change what works for me?

[Little Wise Owl]

200 Sav. monitors' stomach contents examined means nothing, I guess.