Safe handling practice for large snakes

dave himself · 07-24-16, 02:35 PM

This isn't to catch anyone out or start any arguments, I'm just really curious to see what everyones point of view is, even if you don't have large snakes you can still have a point of view

dannybgoode · 07-24-16, 02:44 PM

Two people minimum when the viv is open whatsoever, three if it's a proper monster. I've also seen plenty of photos of small children handling them on their own with the nearest adult what I consider just too far away. By all means let kids handle them but have someone right on guard.

The situation, even with a 'puppy dog tame ' Burm can change in a heartbeat.

I'd also keep all other animals out of sight completely.

Like anything most of it should be common sense. Unfortunately common sense seems to be being bred out of humans.

I've said before I'd love a giant but I don't have anyone to help with the handling. My wife is barely comfortable with Auntie Rachel at 1yo never mind a Burm or a Retic so there's just no point me even thinking about it.

People need to research more also. At least a trip to a zoo where they have a couple of giants. I went to Chester so recently and was talking to a couple at the Retic enclosure. Theft couldn't believe you could get one of Facebook for around £100.

**Minkness** · 07-24-16, 03:08 PM

I believe in the 2 person rule as well. That alone keeps me from having any giants, even though I'd really love a hypo burn and an albino purple sunfire retic.

I hear tap/hook training is recomended, so I'd probably do that.

Personally I wouldn't let any 'small' children around the larger ones. Never really know when one might go into feed mode. I think I would also make sure that whatever room they are in, I'd keep behind lock and key JUST in case one somehow managed to get out of an enclosure. I have heard of giants opening normal doors, so I would make sure the door is locked when not going in and out.

Ummm....hmm....I think that's about it for me....and this is woth zero experience.

riddick07 · 07-24-16, 04:26 PM

I agree on the two people thing once they reach a larger size. I'm guessing around 8 or 9ft and solid is when I'll start wanting someone around when I handle mine. I'll feel more comfortable with 3 or 4 people if either of mine were to hit the larger end of the scale.

Lock and key is a definite. No birds or cats or other animals wandering around. I wouldn't mind little kids with my purple sunfire when she's big but my male doesn't handle activity or change as well and would be too defensive for me to consider it a good idea. He is low key usually but tenses if there's a lot of activity and I've had him strike out once or twice in obvious nervousness when too much is going on.

I've starting using the hook with mine to try and be on the safe side. I try to catch both their attention before I open the door and use the hook so they know I'm coming and aren't surprised.

I feed in the cage and I don't see the point of risking my limbs by dragging them out while the smell of food is around to feed them in another container. When the are bigger I'll probably use tongs with some length to feed them or I'll use some kind of plate to drop it in and close the door. Not like either of mine need me to wiggle food around for them to want to eat lol

When they are bigger I do plan on keeping a knife nearby and while I never plan on anyone having to use it and it's a last resort I'm not going to pretend it might not be needed. (Honestly if it is ever needed I feel like I would have probably made a huge mistake somewhere that caused the situation to happen.) I've also heard the water or alcohol thing but have no idea how well that works myself though I wouldn't mind trying....though I'm thinking the alcohol would make the whole cuts in my arm or wherever even worse haha

I think the worst part is people get a little too comfortable when they have a snake that isn't normally aggressive. They stop paying attention to the body language and miss the fact that the snake is getting uncomfortable or about to strike. With my male you can tell when he is getting nervous and I get the hook to try to snap him out of it and/or just put him away. I also have no plans to take out either of mine if they are in an obvious mood. No reason I can't come back later when they are more receptive to not chewing on my arm

Pogie · 07-24-16, 04:34 PM

Wellllll, first off I don't have any large snakes so this is opinion only

Common sense first off. If it's big enough to eat someone make sure it never goes hungry rotfl.

Well that's my humble opinion!

Really though I think it all boils down to common sense. IF it can eat a dog/cat/kid what ever keep it away from them. I don't think any snake is "tame". But that's another subject lol.

Also a believer with the 2 (if not more) people handling it.
Respect the animal!
Always know where it is at all times. Be aware of what it's doing while holding it or letting it crawl around.
Never let one wrap around you.

I myself won't ever have a snake that large. Because I'm sure I couldn't handle it, that's my common sense kicking in there....I really don't know what else and I'm sure there are lots of things to know before keeping larger snakes.

psychocircus · 07-24-16, 07:08 PM

Have a routine.

Have a strategy so your snake is always aware if it is coming out of the cage vs. being fed.

Use the buddy system.

Don't drink and snake.

If a child is handling the snake in any manner, an adult should have hands on the snake also.

Keep all scents of potential prey out of the area and of yourself.

Never let your guard down, even on the tamest of snakes.

Extra secure cages; double check every time.

bigsnakegirl785 · 07-24-16, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogie

Wellllll, first off I don't have any large snakes so this is opinion only

Common sense first off. If it's big enough to eat someone make sure it never goes hungry rotfl.

Well that's my humble opinion!

Really though I think it all boils down to common sense. IF it can eat a dog/cat/kid what ever keep it away from them. I don't think any snake is "tame". But that's another subject lol.

Also a believer with the 2 (if not more) people handling it.
Respect the animal!
Always know where it is at all times. Be aware of what it's doing while holding it or letting it crawl around.
Never let one wrap around you.

I myself won't ever have a snake that large. Because I'm sure I couldn't handle it, that's my common sense kicking in there....I really don't know what else and I'm sure there are lots of things to know before keeping larger snakes.

There has never been a recorded snake large enough to eat a full-grown average-sized adult human. It's estimated a snake would have to be at minimum 27'-28', and we have yet to have a confirmed snake of that size. A child, probably, infant definitely. For some reason people worry way more about the snake eating them than killing them, which they 100% have to ability to do so. Says a whole lot about the human psyche tbh.

As others said, have a buddy system. I'd like to have 2 people when River hits 8'-10' (check), and have a friend come over and help us with her when she gets bigger than that. Unless we find another roommate. lol

Don't drink or do drugs and handle the snake of course, of course.

I like to have a double-door system in the enclosure in the form of sliding glass doors. This gives you a buffer to react in the case that the snake is moody or in feed mode. You open from the opposite end and get the hook in, and even if they come at you, having to go around that corner will slow them down and possibly throw their aim off. Plus, it's easier to get them in without them getting back out if all you have to do is slide one side closed rather than lift the entire front up.

I never handle my retic when prey scent is in the air, and wait at least 24 hours so the smell dissipates. She is always fed in the enclosure, people have died and been sent to the hospital when feeding their giants out of the enclosure. Doing so is extremely irresponsible not only to your safety but the safety of any other person or free-roaming pet in the house.

Pogie · 07-24-16, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

There has never been a recorded snake large enough to eat a full-grown average-sized adult human. It's estimated a snake would have to be at minimum 27'-28', and we have yet to have a confirmed snake of that size. A child, probably, infant definitely. For some reason people worry way more about the snake eating them than killing them, which they 100% have to ability to do so. Says a whole lot about the human psyche tbh.

As others said, have a buddy system. I'd like to have 2 people when River hits 8'-10' (check), and have a friend come over and help us with her when she gets bigger than that. Unless we find another roommate. lol

Don't drink or do drugs and handle the snake of course, of course.

I like to have a double-door system in the enclosure in the form of sliding glass doors. This gives you a buffer to react in the case that the snake is moody or in feed mode. You open from the opposite end and get the hook in, and even if they come at you, having to go around that corner will slow them down and possibly throw their aim off. Plus, it's easier to get them in without them getting back out if all you have to do is slide one side closed rather than lift the entire front up.

I never handle my retic when prey scent is in the air, and wait at least 24 hours so the smell dissipates. She is always fed in the enclosure, people have died and been sent to the hospital when feeding their giants out of the enclosure. Doing so is extremely irresponsible not only to your safety but the safety of any other person or free-roaming pet in the house.

I was joking lol

Ian of Oldham · 07-25-16, 12:21 AM

Totally bang on the money what everybody has said.

0.1.1 Royals 1.0 Corn 1.o Boa 1.o Carpet and a mad Cat.

Sublimeballs · 07-25-16, 12:52 AM

I'm not around the forum much anymore but I can't pass up contributing to this.

I keep pure jampea retic (amongst several other retics) which are widely considered to have the strongest feed response of all retics. I've hook trained mine; all I have to do for my female is let her tongue flick the handle of my snake room hook and no more feed mode( takes alot more than once with my male, he lounges at you until you get your hands on him). With this method I've never had issues even if it's someone else's feeding day and the room smells of rabbits (my experiences, dont try it because I do it). I cant stress enough to people curious about keeping giants that a feed mode bite is what's most likely to occur and most dangerous when it comes to retics (never owned any other giants other than a yellow annie). This is when the most care, effort, and protocol is required. Males in breeding mode follows up second.

I personally have clear safety/escape/bite protocol posted within sight of my giants cages, which are under lock and key in a locked snake room. I always have my GF on standby if there's any cleaning or feeding to be done(more comment on this to come). I have a big bottle of rubbing alcohol in the snake room incase of a bite (pour some in a snakes mouth and nose and it gives up really quick) and a large knife for the not unthinkable situation of me vs my animal.... sucks to think about but.

For me the routine goes:
Illuminate the cage and assess where the snake is and current mood (anyone who's kept retics knows what I mean)
Open the side of the cage that creates the most work for the snake to bite me
present the handle of the snake hook, snake turns away, open cage completely and gently grab somewhere on the upper 1/2 of the animal
if it's a bigger animal place the back half over one sholder (NEVER BOTH OR AROUND YOUR NECK)
Have a cintainer/spare cage to put in while cleaning
putting them back i direct their heads and they climb in their cages themselves.

I'm a firm believer in the 2 set of hands on the snake when it reaches a certain size. However, I cant put that size into feet because everyone and every snake is different. An 8 foot super dwarf doesn't need 2 people while a 10 foot adult jampea can require 2. It takes experience and an honest assessment of one capabilities to know your limit. Which can cause issues in the giant world as it attracts alot of egos and non serious keepers. So 8-10 foot is a good range to say. These animals are strong from a "small" size so never push it.

DISCLAIMER: Giant pythons can be unpredictable, this is MY opinion, dont trust you life to my words. Many will read into this wrong. These animals do not love you or have a bond with you. Don't confuse my use of the word "trust".

I'm also a firm believer in "trust" building with reptiles. I never man handle, grab behind the head, force them in anyway, etc... just calm confident handeling; and its done wonders for eliminating defensive bites across all my collection (except my childrens.... she was evil from the egg).

dave himself · 07-25-16, 03:22 AM

DISCLAIMER. I am NOT an EXPERT I am just you're average muppet who has been keeping large snakes for a few years now. This system works for us but it may not work for you and our guidelines may be slightly different

First and foremost is the 2 person rule this is never broken under any circumstance

Second is one snake at a time. We've had an occasion where are normal burmese female Daisy as been out of the viv and got spooked for no reason. Trying to get one large python back into its viv while it's having a bad day without worrying what the heck the other one is doing is a blessing believe me

Third no handling with the smell of food in the room. Our 2 burms and retic are tap/hook trained and respond to it very well but when there's the smell of food in the room all bets are off and anything that comes through the viv doors is being bitten and wrapped. This is a fact and one we are well aware of

Four No other animals in the room. This is an absolute must in my opinion for 2 reasons
The first reason being.If it's a small dog or cat it's dead sorry but that's the way it is
Second. The large snake that you just lifted out of the viv has the potential to do serious harm not only to you but to the second handler and needs all your attention and the respect it deserves

Five never let children near the head. We've let the local kids in to see and handle our snakes but never near the heads, this takes away any chance of bite, after all people we are dealing with snakes here and have to use our common sense. Either Lisa or myself always have control of the head in these situations and the kids are kept at the mid or lower part of the snake

That's all my head can think of for now I'm afraid

Jim Smith · 07-25-16, 07:25 AM

I am not a large snake keeper, so I may not be qualified to respond to this question. That said, here goes. I would never let any child around a large snake, period. We all know just how incredibly powerful these animals are, and a large constrictor could inflict fatal injuries to a child in just a few seconds, far faster than any handler could respond to remove the snake from the child. Even a bite from on of these large snakes could be very serious or even fatal, especially if the bite was on the neck or face. I really like the idea of having a separator where you can isolate the snake in an area in its enclosure if you are cleaning. I only keep medium sized colubrids and even then it can be tough focusing on the task at hand and the snake at the same time. Of course, my snakes are only trying to slip out of their enclosures, and not stalking me, but I think you get the idea. I agree with Dave on the two-person rule at ALL times, and if at all possible, both of the people should be knowledgeable enough and strong enough to assist immediately if needed. I watched a program where a young healthy very strong man (weight lifter) had a large scrub python (about 4.5 meters long) that he occasionally let roam the house when he was cleaning its enclosure. When he went to find it to return it to its enclosure, he bent down to look under the couch, the snake struck. It grabbed him by the face, and wrapped around his neck and upper chest, pinning his arms at his side. Needless to say, the man was killed by his pet snake. As I said, I am not a large snake keeper, but I suspect that a very large Retic or Burmese are considerably larger and stronger than a scrub python and thus even more difficult to restrain if they decide to attack. As much as I enjoy my snakes, I would never keep any animals that pose a serious danger to me or any of my family members. I have no problems with other people keeping super-sized snakes or venomous snakes, but I do think that a formal training course coupled with a mentoring program should be required to permit keeping any of these beautiful creatures. Just my two-cetns worth.

macandchz · 07-25-16, 10:43 AM

great advice from everyone. i just had my picture taken with 1 of the giants. they seem so nice and sweet that you forget that they can change their temperment very quickly.

sattva · 07-25-16, 12:57 PM

Some great advice here... I will definitely incorporate the knife and alcohol... I am not to worried right now, my guys still small... 4'&1/2 to 5' ... I am hoping he won't get over 10 feet...His father is only 10 feet so I am keeping my fingers crossed... He's is not your typical retic from what I have been reading... He's very calm, curious, doesn't freak when I pick him up, doesn't bit me... He is just way cool... I am using the tap hook method, it's working great; at least while he is small...

My new Jungle carpet and my Taiwanese beauty snake although not the monsters like the retics and burmese are, I can not really use a hook on them... They just get to squirrely for me to handle; So I will take a roll of paper towels and push their head away and pick them up with the other hand...
So as far as the two person rule goes, I am all for it! Does two old people with bad backs count? My 67 year old wife is my backup... Luckily she is not afraid of them... I have told her that if it ever happens you unwind from the tail out...

dannybgoode · 07-25-16, 12:58 PM

I just hope some would be giant owners who do not know what they're getting into read this and think really carefully whether they really want to take on the commitment.

It terrifies me that I can go on Facebook and buy a Retic, Burm, anaconda-whatever with no checks, no questions.

Just daft really.

I'm not necessarily advocating licensing or similar but retics in particular are being over bred to a massive degree. Who's going to buy all these snakes?