Keep your cats indoors. - Page 4

RAD House · 02-16-16, 02:27 AM

Cats numbers are not being threatened by a cat being shut indoors, where as song bird numbers are definitely by outdoor cats. Your reasoning is flawed. Outdoor cats pose the biggest threat to wildlife of any pet species, and it seems to be of no concern for most. Be responsible and spay or neuter your cat, and if you insist on putting your little killer outdoors then put a bell on it.

Herpo · 02-16-16, 02:31 AM

I'd say only let a cat outdoors in Urban areas where native birds are less likely to be. Where I live, cats are cleaning up the population of invasive indian mynas. I'd still not let my cat out, would hate to walk out to her dead on the road...

sam · 02-16-16, 11:53 AM

Our cat kills rodents often, only problem is we live right next to a large natures reserve, which he enjoys roaming. And as a result, the native wildlife from the reserve often come onto our property, this includes snakes, lizards and kangaroos.

But thats all good cause in a few years the cane toads will dawn upon us and kill all the feral cats and natives anyway, so it doesn't really matter in the long run.

dannybgoode · 02-16-16, 12:31 PM

one of those areas we'll have to agree to differ. I too have lost cats to traffic accidents and I still maintain they are outdoor creatures and should not be cooped up 24/7 indoors. I hate the thought.

Interestingly here in the UK the law to some extent recognises that cats are all essentially wild animals as legally you do not own a cat and are not held responsible for it's actions as you would be say a dogs.

I appreciate though there are some things that people will never agree on...

**Andy_G** · 02-16-16, 01:06 PM

I'm extremely allergic to cats so I don't keep them, but I definitely agree that they should be kept indoors. Feral cats are a scourge and should be euthanised in order to control transmissable disease.

Anyone who thinks it to be cruel to keep a cat inside at all times because they belong outdoors should really reconsider keeping reptiles, or anything else for that matter, as a pet.

LespaceSerpent · 02-16-16, 02:36 PM

I don't see a problem with a well-cared-for cat being both indoor and outdoor. As lot as the cat is properly cared for, spayed/neutered, and vaccinated. Our cats have very rarely brought anything to our door and it was never birds only voles that had been burrowing in our yard. They know they can come in the house whenever they would like.

Now stray cats that just wander around breeding, spreading disease do need to be taken care of but I don't believe in going through neighborhoods euthanizing cats for being outside. Animals have been killing other animals for as long as they've existed and it's going to happen one way or another.

sam · 02-17-16, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LespaceSerpent

Animals have been killing other animals for as long as they've existed and it's going to happen one way or another.

I believe this statement is fundamentally wrong regarding this argument. No offence.

Every ecosystem has a very fine balance, my 9 year old sister pulled the same argument as you did saying "oh, it's natural for him to kill things, its the circle of life." Cats are not native, they disrupt the natural balance of the ecosystem, same with dogs.

Saying animals kill other animals is only relevant to the ecosystem that was crafted for those very specific plants, insects and animals that are designed for that environment. When you introduce an alien species to an environment, it can cause massive damage to the ecosystem and tip the fine balance that has been formed over millions of years.

It may be different in the USA where foreign animals are introduced willy-nilly but here is Aus we've had severe problems with introduced species. The cane toad, rabbits, honey bees, wasps, foxes. Many native species have gone extinct.

This all comes down to humans in general, we're a pretty big failure in the long run. The planet has thrived for billions of years, and after a mere thousand after humans started booming, the planet has gone to sh*t.

In the end it's not the cats fault, it can't help it's tendencies to be a nuisance. It's the owners fault.

Tiny Boidae · 02-16-16, 03:00 PM

The problem with a lot of outdoor cats is that they might be well cared for and fed, but instinct still tells them to kill. So they'll kill for the sport of it and that hurts a lot of species. Cats are an invasive species so a lot of birds and small animals aren't evolved to deal with this trophy hunter, so that puts them at an unfair advantage. And in a lot of urban areas, cats don't have anything to fear except cars, so feral cats are able to breed profusely especially since people will often leave kitty food out for strays, which tips the balance even more since natural selection isn't able to weed out as many of the cats.

I agree that unwanted animals should be euthanized if not adopted within a certain amount of time, and feral cats should just be flat-out euthanized unless they're below a certain age. We have too many unwanted animals, and as you said animals have been killing other animals for as long as they've existed. Why is it okay for them to kill billions of birds and not okay to euthanize these animals? I say that the government needs to step up and put some funding towards environmental causes for a change and stop building shiny new tanks.

dannybgoode · 02-16-16, 03:09 PM

Thing is the figures don't stack up. There aren't billions of birds a year that are accessible to cats in cities where the majority of domestic cat populations are. Further if the numbers were true then wild bird populations would have long been wiped out in cities by now also.

The numbers some of these studies come out with simply aren't achievable and the numbers are generally extrapolated.

I will dig out the link to the documentary I mentioned. Their figures were obtained from actual observation of a population of cats over av period off a week or so and their genuinely was very little killing.

I can't remember the last time I witnessed a kill by my two. The only thing I recall them going for is the odd monster rat that has got in to the house. And, I my immediate neighbourhood there is a healthy population of outside cats and lots and lots of birds. Again, of each of the cats in my area were killing the 150 a year or whatever this birds population simply wouldn't exist.

bigsnakegirl785 · 02-17-16, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

Thing is the figures don't stack up. There aren't billions of birds a year that are accessible to cats in cities where the majority of domestic cat populations are. Further if the numbers were true then wild bird populations would have long been wiped out in cities by now also.

The numbers some of these studies come out with simply aren't achievable and the numbers are generally extrapolated.

I will dig out the link to the documentary I mentioned. Their figures were obtained from actual observation of a population of cats over av period off a week or so and their genuinely was very little killing.

I can't remember the last time I witnessed a kill by my two. The only thing I recall them going for is the odd monster rat that has got in to the house. And, I my immediate neighbourhood there is a healthy population of outside cats and lots and lots of birds. Again, of each of the cats in my area were killing the 150 a year or whatever this birds population simply wouldn't exist.

You do realize the majority of cat's range is actually rural or farmland, right? Not all cats live in the city, and they've wiped out entire islands of animals of all kinds (birds, reptiles, rodents, you name it) because none of the inhabitants had any natural predators.

The thing is, if your cat is roaming free it's only logical to assume you're not going to see 90% of what they kill. Because they don't bring everything home, and you're not there to watch them.

I don't know about the UK, but it's incredibly common for people to come and poison your pets, antifreeze seems to be a favorite. It's also really common for kids to torture cats. One of the cats we found was drowning in a storm drain, and since there was literally no connections to that drain, it was just straight down with two grates, we can only assume some sick kids grabbed him up and stuck him in there. It's also common for kids to kick strays through the air, rip their skin off, break bones, set them on fire, etc. Animal torture of this nature is an epidemic in our country.

My old neighbors had dogs, and they'd sic them on our outdoor cat, and one of her toes is mangled, luckily she was able to get up in the insulation under our house before the dog did any more damage, but they were always treeing her. Once we moved, she was brought indoors, the only troubles she had was getting along with her kids, but once that was done, she's shown absolutely no trouble being kept indoors, and has never made a run for the door.

And driving around here in town, where we have high number of strays, I see at least 3-4 dead cats on the side of the road every week or every other week. That's over the area of several blocks, not just one area, though. I live in a different area, so I don't go out that way much anymore, but it's only a few minutes drive away. I've seen more stray cats appear and die off over the 7 years my mom lived there than I care to count.

RAD House · 02-16-16, 06:08 PM

A week of observation, are you joking? That could in no way be considered accurate in a scientific sense. Saying there is plenty of birds is like saying there are plenty of mammals and we should not worry about any species that is declining. The loss of single species of wild bird could have tragic effects on an environment. Birds are mainly migratory so to say you have not observed a decline is asinine.

dannybgoode · 02-16-16, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

A week of observation, are you joking? That could in no way be considered accurate in a scientific sense. Saying there is plenty of birds is like saying there are plenty of mammals and we should not worry about any species that is declining. The loss of single species of wild bird could have tragic effects on an environment. Birds are mainly migratory so to say you have not observed a decline is asinine.

But the fact remains that of cats killed at the rate some studies suggest There simply wouldn't be any birds left where there is a significant population of domestic cats.

Based on the numbers I've seen cats in the uk alone would be killing some 3bn + animals pet year which would be an unsustainable number. They simply aren't killing that many animals.

Anyway as I said earlier it's a bit pointless me getting involved in this as I have my views and others theirs and we ain't never going to agree...

dannybgoode · 02-16-16, 10:54 PM

Over the past 40 years (i.e since I was born) I have owned or lived with 13 cats. Only 2 have never returned home due to potential accidents. However I'm pretty sure one of them just got fed up and moved in with someone else.

The dangers of them being allowed out doors are in my opinion overstated. As I say in the UK at least it is very unusual to keep a cat as a house cat and again I very rarely hear of cat owing friends losing theirs also.

Yes it happens but then people lose the odd reptile to accidents however caused, vivs being left open etc.

Lefitte · 02-17-16, 12:48 AM

Maybe it's a little different in the UK then. I personally know of at least 3 cats who have been lost due to coyotes. I have seen many dead cats run over by cars in the road. I have personally stopped children from beating a stray with a stick when I was little. Maybe cats aren't in as much danger where you live, but there's no denying it where I live. There are several studies currently going on about how much cats roam and how much they actually kill, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe in a few years we'll have some better information about that.

LespaceSerpent · 02-17-16, 01:01 AM

I guess the part that bothers me about this thread is saying that we are irresponsible in the way we keep our pets. The only time I hear about lost cats in my area is when they were indoor cats that got out rather than outdoor cats gone missing. I love my pets very much and we do take care of them.