Rattlesnake killed by feeder squirrel

[Kuamata]

I'm not even in Canada and in the same boat. Kentucky bans all rearfanged 'venomous' species except the hognose. Otherwise I would definitely add a Mangrove.

[reptiledude987]

Originally Posted by Kuamata

I'm not even in Canada and in the same boat. Kentucky bans all rearfanged 'venomous' species except the hognose. Otherwise I would definitely add a Mangrove.

This is what I dont get why say hoggies are ok but mangroves arent when theyre both equally "dangerous"???

[Aaron_S]

Mangroves are a slender, semi-arboreal to arboreal large rear-fanged snake. They easily reach sizes of 10 feet. Are notably defensive especially in the evening/night when they are known to be active.

I fully believe people should treat them just like a venomous snake and hook them just the same. Nothing should be taken lightly when it has the potential to injure/harm you.

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Mangroves are a slender, semi-arboreal to arboreal large rear-fanged snake. They easily reach sizes of 10 feet. Are notably defensive especially in the evening/night when they are known to be active.

I fully believe people should treat them just like a venomous snake and hook them just the same. Nothing should be taken lightly when it has the potential to injure/harm you.

Aaron again I find myself agreeing with you, some thing must be wrong here. LOL

I do own a mangrove snake and Aaron is right on the money with what he has stated. I also own a mangrove pit viper, which is also a nasty snake. Don't for get the false water cobras, which are rear fang as well. In NY all rear fang snakes except for the hog nose require a venomous license. And years ago my hog noses were listed on my licenses.

[Zelg]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Mangroves are a slender, semi-arboreal to arboreal large rear-fanged snake. They easily reach sizes of 10 feet. Are notably defensive especially in the evening/night when they are known to be active.

I fully believe people should treat them just like a venomous snake and hook them just the same. Nothing should be taken lightly when it has the potential to injure/harm you.

Crazy. They get quite a bit bigger than I thought then.

[pet_snake_78]

Banning all rear fanged snakes seems extreme to me. There are a few researchers gathering information on the subject and I see a couple of lists have been published classifying rear fanged snakes into categories based on likelihood of danger to humans. Although the information its based on are incomplete, it's certainly a better starting point for laws than saying all rear fanged snakes are illegal. By that standard, wouldn't ringneck snakes be "too dangerous" and I've only personally handled about 10,000 of those in my life. Miracle I am still breathing! May as well ban earthworms and butterflies at that point.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by pet_snake_78

Banning all rear fanged snakes seems extreme to me. There are a few researchers gathering information on the subject and I see a couple of lists have been published classifying rear fanged snakes into categories based on likelihood of danger to humans. Although the information its based on are incomplete, it's certainly a better starting point for laws than saying all rear fanged snakes are illegal. By that standard, wouldn't ringneck snakes be "too dangerous" and I've only personally handled about 10,000 of those in my life. Miracle I am still breathing! May as well ban earthworms and butterflies at that point.

No one said everything should be banned.

[Kuamata]

Yeah, False Water Cobras were another rear fanged on my list. As far as hoggies, if you let them chew, all that may happen is some mild pain associated with swelling. Somewhere I read nausea and a light fever may also occur... In cases of an allergic reaction, death can occur.. kind of russian roulette if you don't know if you're allergic or not. Mangroves definitely pack a more powerful punch. Agree that just because they're rear fanged doesn't mean they should be taken lightly.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Kuamata

Yeah, False Water Cobras were another rear fanged on my list. As far as hoggies, if you let them chew, all that may happen is some mild pain associated with swelling. Somewhere I read nausea and a light fever may also occur... In cases of an allergic reaction, death can occur.. kind of russian roulette if you don't know if you're allergic or not. Mangroves definitely pack a more powerful punch. Agree that just because they're rear fanged doesn't mean they should be taken lightly.

There's a thread by a member named 'Jaleely". She was bitten by her hognose and took pics and logged the history of the bite and the pain. It certainly was more than "mild pain" and swelling.

You'll live and most likely keep your limbs however I don't know why anyone would want this unpleasant feeling. Or be okay with the possibility of it happening.

[Kuamata]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

There's a thread by a member named 'Jaleely". She was bitten by her hognose and took pics and logged the history of the bite and the pain. It certainly was more than "mild pain" and swelling.

You'll live and most likely keep your limbs however I don't know why anyone would want this unpleasant feeling. Or be okay with the possibility of it happening.

I guess it really depends on how much you swell. Obviously if you have a lot of swelling, you're going to have more skin tension, which means more pain... Still, just because you may get off the hook with swelling, pain, nausea, and/or a small fever, doesn't mean it's not a cause for concern. As I said, allergic reactions can definitely prove fatal if not treated ASAP. More severe swelling may cut off circulation and cause loss of limbs like fingers, but it's rare when it comes to hoggies. Others? Yeah, you're probably more likely to lose a finger, maybe even more, just depends.

[yeloowtang]

I agree about the mangrove !! took me a while to find this info.. but regarding the venom:
quote"
A Note On Venom Although very little is known about the venom's affect on humans, it is comparable to that of a death adder. Poorly evolved fangs and a poor delivery system make this snake's bite likely less than life threatening. Since they have a primitive means of venom delivery, they are not likely to pose a threat to a healthy adult.
quote"

in my collection, the way i see it, if i could combine my red female ATB who's a complete b###h nasty as can be with the size of my SD reticulated pyuthon female and add the venom part... it gives me a good idea how a mangrove would be like...
no way would that be at all legal where i live. plus, even if i would love to have one and they were legal !!! having kids at home, not sure that i would take the risk .. accidents do happen.

but on the venom, bearded dragons have a mild venom and are sold to anyone, of course nothing compared to a mangrove but if they were to start going crazzy on reptiles, many could possibly be banned too.

again, where i live, the municipal by-law is purposly vague, this gives the animal control officer a case by case option and can do what he wants depending on how he feels that day..
i've contacted him directly (hidden ID of course) and he confirmed that..

i also like baron racers (also venemous), rhino rat snakes (believe not venemous or maybe verry mild ) but both rear fanged.. and since he wasn't clear on his position regarding rear fangs or small hogs !!!!!
it's best to not keep them ( in my case anyways) just because if some day they knock on my door , i want all my snakes to be legal..
even if they are, i still don't trust them and stay under the radar as much as possible.
simply because they could walk in to see all my animals in the reserved climat controlled room for them with closed door, locked cages, clean, healty and say all is ok here no worries, only to come back a few days later with a warrant and the media band wagon for a sensational news day...

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Kuamata

Yeah, False Water Cobras were another rear fanged on my list. As far as hoggies, if you let them chew, all that may happen is some mild pain associated with swelling. Somewhere I read nausea and a light fever may also occur... In cases of an allergic reaction, death can occur.. kind of russian roulette if you don't know if you're allergic or not. Mangroves definitely pack a more powerful punch. Agree that just because they're rear fanged doesn't mean they should be taken lightly.

i let a false water cobra chew on a leather glove,after a minute there was a fair size puddle of venom on the glove


cheers shaun

[MDT]

The pain is caused by much more than skin "tension". Components of the venom itself induce pain (bradykinins, etc...), other components allow for increased vascular permeability, which leads to the giant sausage finger....as far as allergies go...you're not gonna be allergic to it just "de novo". You gotta be exposed to whatever protein first, then become sensitized...so it's the second bite that will be the issue if you develop an allergy to any component of the venom. Frankly, with envenomation, allergies are the last thing I'd worry about.....

Weren't we talking about some goofball feeding a squirrel to a rattlesnake ???

[Kuamata]

Originally Posted by MDT

The pain is caused by much more than skin "tension". Components of the venom itself induce pain (bradykinins, etc...), other components allow for increased vascular permeability, which leads to the giant sausage finger....as far as allergies go...you're not gonna be allergic to it just "de novo". You gotta be exposed to whatever protein first, then become sensitized...so it's the second bite that will be the issue if you develop an allergy to any component of the venom. Frankly, with envenomation, allergies are the last thing I'd worry about.....

Weren't we talking about some goofball feeding a squirrel to a rattlesnake ???

Ah, thanks for shedding light on that. I don't know all yhe really specific stuff like bradykinins and stuff. I jist know envenomation is no good.

[D Grade]

Lets not forget about Coral Snakes as far as rear fanged venomous snakes go. If you're willing to handle a Mangrove , you'd might as well handle a Coral as well (sarcastic, not recommending).