How big should a 17 month old yellow rat snake be?

[poomwah]

Aaron,
I don't think that saying "welcome to the reptile industry" is a dangerous statement. I don't think it will hurt the industry. Look at it this way, anyone with a brain can see it was meant not as an insult to the business in general , just that if you participate in this hobby, you will eventually get burned. Anyone that doesn't have enough sense to see that's how its meant, well, is that really someone you are going to want to deal with as a customer, LOL.
I also believe that you never got burned. Due diligence and patience, being extremely careful who you buy from, etc, etc. These things would all greatly reduce , if not eliminate the risk of disappointment.

[poomwah]

I told you why, because that way more people will be informed. I'm posting about here, because other than you, people on here care. On there theres' a lot of high school clique type attitude. This thread is more civilized than that.
I'm totally cool with the seller posting whatever he wants to about me. Any breeders that do not want to deal with me as a result of this says a lot about the type of breeder they are. I've already had breeders contact me about this, some posting the size of their animals, one even suspecting from the size and feeding issues that its probably wild caught.
You are right though, he didn't lie about the size, he left that out and instead of answering , gave us a deadline on the purchase. He didn't lie about the size but he used a picture that total misrepresented the animal. A dishonest practice at least, even if he didn't outwardly lie.

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by poomwah

I told you why, because that way more people will be informed. I'may posting about here, because other than you, people on here care. On there theres' a lot of high school clique type attitude. This thread is more civilized than that.
I'm totally cool with the seller posting whatever he wants to about me. Any breeders that do not want to deal with me as a result of this says a lot about the type of breeder they are. I've already had breeders contact me about this, some posting the size of their animals, one even suspecting from the size and feeding issues that its probably wild caught.
You are right though, he didn't lie about the size, he left that out and instead of answering , gave us a deadline on the purchase. He didn't lie about the size but he used a picture that total misrepresented the animal. A dishonest practice at least, even if he didn't outwardly lie.

Again this is not the boi. You are also right about me not caring about your mistake nor do I care what other mysterious breeders say. You actually had a couple of weeks to get the deal done and apparently you guys kept in contact. I would also put a deadline on someonewho so blatantly looked like a tire kicker.

The other issue I have is you haven't bothered posting any proof of what was said. You expect us to take your word for it but I personally don't take anyone's word until I'veseen the measu re of the person speaking. Unfortunately you so far look like a person with buyers remorse that failed to make sure that he understood what he was purchasing.

Also the only reason you like this thread better than the boi one is because no one here is questioning you or asking that you actually clarify. Don't think I didn't notice your little personal attack about me not caring about the snake. I actually am worried about the snake but iI'm more worried about it being in your care.

These are my thoughts and opinions about you and have no bearing on my thoughtsand opi nions of the seller.

[poomwah]

Firstly Korbin,
I sincerely apologize,there was no personal attack against you. I merely stated that you didn't care and others did. I was referring to the situation, not the snake. I'm sorry that you thought I was attacking you and thinking I said you didn't care about the snake, I have no reason to think that you wouldn't care about the animal.
That being said, the reason I like it here is because there is no mob mentality, and people tend to read and respond to entire posts where over there, as is clear to anyone who is willing to see it. There is a plethora of twisting facts and picking out certain details to make a point and completely ignoring pertinent details.
I expect to be questioned, and I welcome and encourage it. What would you like to see proof of ?
Blatantly look like a tire kicker? I ask for information and instead of getting it, I am told that I have to purchase right then.
The truth of the matter is, I messed up, it is my fault that I failed to get all the important info before making the purchase. I ran out of time to wait for the information I requested, and I trusted the good reviews I had read. THAT is my fault. I made that decision, I admit that.
But you cannot deny that the dealer used a deceptive picture and that his colony of snakes are so much smaller than is normal in the hobby that he SHOULD have said something.

[poomwah]

Korbin: I actually am worried about the snake but iI'm more worried about it being in your care.


Could someone please tell me what on EARTH have I done that makes ANYONE concerned about a snake being in my care???
Regardless of whether someone likes me or not, or whether or not they agree about the deal or how I handled it. How does my care come into question?

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by poomwah

Korbin: I actually am worried about the snake but iI'm more worried about it being in your care.


Could someone please tell me what on EARTH have I done that makes ANYONE concerned about a snake being in my care???
Regardless of whether someone likes me or not, or whether or not they agree about the deal or how I handled it. How does my care come into question?

I actually came up with that impression without reading past page 11 on the boi because that was where it had stopped yesterday. You seem very inexperienced, you are giving off the impression that you are mauling the poor thing and your behaviour in the boi thread seems petty and immature. You have played every card in the refund demand arsenal.

[poomwah]

Please explain how I am mauling the poor thing? This I would love to hear. My snakes are healthy and thriving. Please enlighten me, or "school me" as the "experts" on BOI are saying and tell me what I'm doing wrong with my snakes, Instead of just insulting me, try to help and tell me what I should be doing differently in the care of my snakes.

[Terranaut]

Again my thoughts.....
welcome to the reptile industry in my mind does paint a poor picture of our hobby. See this isn't an industry. ....these are animals and as much as people use terms like "produced" ,"collection" or "industry" people will attempt to disassociate the living creatures out of the moneyto be made at their expense. At one time dogs were an industry too. Puppy mills with no regulations showed how horrible people can be. I am hoping the industry goes back to being a hobby but don't see it.
I also doubt the breeder purposely misrepresented the snake you bought. You do sound inexperienced from your posts (not a bad thing) and I don't think you asked the right questions. The two guys your arguing with in this thread are just trying to "keep it real" here and not bash a breeder who may have not done anything wrong. I too would put a time limit on interactions with a customer. The snake is nice. Looks healthy and all seems good. Can we stop this now and get away from the industry and back to the hobby?

[poomwah]

excellent point, industry does have an unpleasant connotation. When you put it that way, I do much prefer the term hobby.

[Sharlynn93]

can I just say, poomwah, that I have 2 corns (similar to rats, same family...) and 1 of mine is 6 months older than the other...for the 1st year of their lives, they grew at VERY different rates...my 6 month old weighed more than the yearling and they were exactly the same length...they ate the same things, they never refused meals, etc...every snake grows differently...and most of their first year was all length growth, their weights barely budged, then all of a sudden (at the same time, despite the age difference) the length growth slowed to a crawl and they are packing on the weight...I think you just need patience...if you really despise the poor snake at this point (and it is impossible to tell what they will look like full grown at this point) then let someone else take her who will appreciate her beauty...she may be on the smaller side of the spectrum, but she is healthy and beautiful....

[poomwah]

Originally Posted by Sharlynn93

can I just say, poomwah, that I have 2 corns (similar to rats, same family...) and 1 of mine is 6 months older than the other...for the 1st year of their lives, they grew at VERY different rates...my 6 month old weighed more than the yearling and they were exactly the same length...they ate the same things, they never refused meals, etc...every snake grows differently...and most of their first year was all length growth, their weights barely budged, then all of a sudden (at the same time, despite the age difference) the length growth slowed to a crawl and they are packing on the weight...I think you just need patience...if you really despise the poor snake at this point (and it is impossible to tell what they will look like full grown at this point) then let someone else take her who will appreciate her beauty...she may be on the smaller side of the spectrum, but she is healthy and beautiful....

I understand that they all grow at different rates. The snake is uncharacteristically small and so far won't eat. that can't be a good sign.
The whole point is being missed , I specifically bought an older snake so that I could have a larger snake so that I could handle it. I can't safely handle a snake this small. that's why I didn't buy a hatchling.

[Terranaut]

Why can you not handle a snake that small?

[poomwah]

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Why can you not handle a snake that small?

I don't have the feeling or the coordination anymore. I've broken almost every finger at least once, sprained every finger at least once, broke several bones in my right hand, and I've got arthritis. My family doctor thinks I have carpal tunnel as well, but I haven't seen the specialist about that yet.
It makes it EXTREMELY difficult to pick up small things. You should see me trying to pick up a pencil off a hardwood floor. It's like trying to pick up a piece of spaghetti with an oven mitt, LOL. With larger snakes, its not so much a problem, but with something the size of this snake, I'm afraid I'm going to crush it trying to pick it up.
That's why the size discrepancy is such a big issue. That's why I paid more for a yearling than I did for yearling that what a hatchling would have cost.
That was the whole point, an average size yearling would have been something I could handle and work with now. It will take as long to ge this girl to handling size as it would to get a hatchling to handling size. If I was going to have to wait, what was the point of spending the extra money for something older.

[EL Ziggy]

Poom- I can understand your disappointment in receiving a snake that was smaller than expected and if the breeder omitted important info. There's no turning back on that now so let's chalk it up as a lesson learned and be forward thinking. No need to debate the could haves, should haves, and what if's. The life and health of the snake should be a key focus right now. The most important thing at the present moment is to work on getting the snake to eat regularly. Once you get that in order you'll have more options. You can either keep the snake, sell it and recoup a portion of your investment, or make someone else's day by giving it to a good home. In a worst case scenario you're out of $200. Not chump change but not the end of the world . Best wishes comrade.

[poomwah]

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Poom- I can understand your disappointment in receiving a snake that was smaller than expected and if the breeder omitted important info. There's no turning back on that now so let's chalk it up as a lesson learned and be forward thinking. No need to debate the could haves, should haves, and what if's. The life and health of the snake should be a key focus right now. The most important thing at the present moment is to work on getting the snake to eat regularly. Once you get that in order you'll have more options. You can either keep the snake, sell it and recoup a portion of your investment, or make someone else's day by giving it to a good home. In a worst case scenario you're out of $200. Not chump change but not the end of the world . Best wishes comrade.

Thanks Zig, great advice. And I totally agree that the snakes health should be my main focus and it is, but I can't help that this is just driving me nuts. Every time I read a post out loud about someone saying that the snake is not unusually small, I hear at least one person in my family yelling.
i am hung up on the size issue because she IS abnormally small here. 29 grams at 17 months? I just talked with a breeder who has one the same age that has been brumating for 4 months that weighs 79 grams.
So, please, lets look at this logically, a snake the same age that hasn't eaten for 4 months is 50 grams heavier.
We are not talking about relatively small, we are talking 2 and a half times smaller than the example I mentioned, and that snake was on the lower end.
I really am trying Zig, I'm trying to not think about the could haves and would haves, but my whole family is sitting here trying to figure out how anyone could say she's not abnormally small. I've got rat snake owners asking if I am sure the snake isn't 7 months or 17 weeks because its so small. I've got breeders telling me the snake is VERY small, one even saying that with its size and weight it sounds like its wild caught.
But I still get all these people saying the size is not an issue or that its not THAT small.
Early in this thread Mikoh pointed out having a 2012 that was 3 feet or so long, my 2012 is 19.3 inches. My eastern rat is only a month or 2 older than the yellow, not enough difference in age to make much difference in size. George has been fed once a week (which most will admit is conservative), and at last measuring he was 39.5 inches and 261 grams.
I'm sorry for being hung up on size , but I'm just trying to understand how anyone can say that's not abnormally small