Salmonella!

Toothless · 09-14-13, 12:50 AM

My 3 month old son was diagnosed with Salmonella yesterday, and of course the first thing the doctor said was that Toothless caused it.
Now I know reptiles can carry salmonella, but I'm very careful about my care around him. My older son is not allowed to go into the enclosure and all reptile utensils are kept out of reach. Toothless is not allowed out of the enclosure, I use gloves to handle him, and wash my hands after feeding him.
I'm struggling to find out exactly HOW my son caught this nasty thing, and keep it from happening again. The hospital is running further tests to see what strain it is, which will help us find out where it came from.
He got it sometime last weekend, so I have been trying to determine possible sources. I fed toothless chicken last weekend, but never touched him and washed my hands afterwards but there could still have been some contamination I missed. I also opened a new can of formula that weekend, but I'm hoping it didn't come from that. I didn't eat any chicken, beef or eggs, so doubt it came from those. Are there any other possible sources that I should be looking into. I really don't think it came from the lizard itself and would like to clear his name with the doctors at the hospital.
We should know the exact strain by tomorrow, which will help tremendously.
I appreciate any insight people have. I've never dealt with salmonella before, and my poor guy is pretty sick from it. I want to make sure this doesn't happen again!

smy_749 · 09-14-13, 04:08 AM

Sorry to hear that, hope he makes a speedy recovery. As for where it came from, trying your hardest when it comes to 'germs' and staying away from bacteria usually isn't enough. It really hard honestly. My guesses would have been chicken or the sav too, try not to think about the how, because you already try your hardest and thinking of how is no benefit really. Just keep doing your best to keep everything away and hope he doesnt get unlucky a second time.

formica · 09-14-13, 04:12 AM

what about his school? any other kids become ill? inccorectly cooked chicken and eggs are the most common source - that said, it is a public health issue if any of the chicken products being used contain salmonella, cooking is an extra precaution, but they should not contain salmonella in the first place (well i'm assuming the same rules apply to Canada as the UK)

might be worth getting toothless checked with the vet either way (faeces/urate test i think? culd be wrong), will also give you the oppertunity to match the strain if its present - if its shown that it isnt toothless, then you need to contact the school, and they need to contact their suppliers, its a pretty big deal if thats the source

get yourself an anti-bactirial hand wash gel of some kind, theres lots to choose from, use it on your hands, and a spray for things like door handles is a good precaution to

Toothless · 09-14-13, 04:49 AM

Getting a fecal from Toothless will be hard as he almost always poos in his water. Is there another way to test for it?
I'd like to find out the source if possible just so I can make sure he doesn't become reinfected. I know it may be impossible to pin-point, but I'm going to try my hardest.
We're back into the hospital again for a re-check this morning...

Lankyrob · 09-14-13, 04:56 AM

I am fairly sure That salmonella is "non spore forming" so can only be caught through direct contact. It has been a few years since i looked at it when we first got snakes as we were concerned about my daughter.

infernalis · 09-14-13, 04:56 AM

First of all, before widespread panic sets in. There are more than one strain of the bacteria that cause Salmonella infection.

Furthermore, most of us come into contact with these bacterium on a regular basis without even as much as an itch or watery eye.

Salmonella is such a common bacteria that it can be found on dog poop, toads, cat litter, thawing meat, etc...

Before you allow some quack to blame it on toothless, Ask yourself this.. Is it possible that you or a neighbor were thawing out some meat or left some egg shells out where a fly could have walked on it's surface and then later walked on your son, or a sippy cup, spoon, bowl, etc.. transmitting it from point A to point B?

Most of us have good solid immunities and could lick raw chicken all day without a problem, Children and the elderly are at the most risk, and children make mud pies, eat bugs and kiss frogs.

Don't be so quick to pin it on the lizard.

formica · 09-14-13, 08:53 AM

meat should not contain salmonella, cooking it properly is only a precaution, but if there is salmonella in any meat or eggs, then someone at the farm or processing factories has not been doing their job properly - food found to containing salmonella should not ever make it to the shops - so unfortunetly, odds are, it is the lizard - thats not to say that salmonella isnt found in meat/eggs sometimes, but when it is, it results in a massive recall of the product and potential legal action by local/national government against the producer

infernalis · 09-14-13, 09:13 AM

Formica you do raise a valid point, who's going to recall dog poop and bird crap?

I'm just trying to look at all points here.

B_Aller · 09-14-13, 10:19 AM

Humans are also the #1 carrier and transmitter of salmonella, so don't rule out human contact. I don't have kids but I do know that all kids are vectors for disease

those school yards are crawling with germs...come to think of it I think I'll start washing my hands after handling kids... or just run screaming!

formica · 09-14-13, 10:57 AM

typhoid infections, the type carried by humans, are pretty rare in the west - but i guess if any ones going to pick it up or spread it, its kids who havent got the hang of toilet hygiene yet

Toothless · 09-14-13, 12:53 PM

Thank you all for the replies. I never realized how common salmonella bacteria is and how easy it is to catch. Makes me feel a bit better that it may not have been my fault he got it. Its awful hearing the little one scream in pain. He seems to be a bit better today though- just have to watch for dehydration.

We're still waiting for the results on what strain it is. The doctor said he'd call me tomorrow and let me know.

alessia55 · 09-14-13, 09:27 PM

Sorry to hear about your son. Wayne raised some valid points. Keep us posted on your kid's condition and let us know if you do find out the cause.

smy_749 · 09-14-13, 09:55 PM

This thread is going to result in a few new germaphobes.

Toothless · 09-14-13, 10:52 PM

I certainly hope I don't discourage people from getting reptiles with my post! I wasn't as cautious with my care until the baby came as the we-ones are more subseptible. I think anyone with a baby SHOULD be viligiant with hygiene around reptiles, but not to the point of being obsessive.
The reason I created this thread was to get some insight on possible causes, and if it did come from Toothless, to change my care routine and prevent it from happening again. I hope anyone who reads this post doesn't become overly paranoid about bacteria.

Thank you all for the concern. Its day 5 now, and apparently symptoms usually go away around this time even without treatment so hopeing he wakes up a much happier boy! Started coughing yesterday, but the hospital thinks he may have just picked up a cold while at the hospital. Can't wait for those results to come in.

Toothless · 09-15-13, 10:21 AM

Just an update...
The little one's feeling a bit better today, which is great.
The hospital called this morning and said they won't have the specific strain until later today, but that its a strain that's resistant to antibiotics so they prescribed me a different kind. The information I've been able to find does not state that the salmonella bacteria from reptiles is resistant to antibiotics- does anyone have any more information on if this is true?
They also scheduled me for an appointment with infectious diseases to try and determine the cause- apparently they investigate all cases of salmonella in infants.
I was also able to find quite a few posts by people claiming their children got salmonella off the same brand of formula I've been using- I don't think any of it was proven, but its something I'm looking into as well. I had just opened the container right before he got sick, and saved it just in case. I really hope its not from that though, as that would mean more children are at risk.