A Goodbye to Minnows

Kettennatter · 06-18-13, 08:31 AM

A couple of days ago I noticed that my female garter was acting somewhat odd. She wasn’t moving in a straight line and was going through a corkscrew type of motion, which seemed less controlled at time progressed. Researching the issue I came across thiamine deficiency affecting garter snakes. I had primarily fed minnows until now, thinking that they contained little thiaminase, but obviously more than I thought.

I dusted tiny pieces of wild-caught salmon in thiamine and assist-fed the snake, placing the pieces in her mouth whenever I could. After 2-3 hours she seemed to be back to normal.

Both garters have not touched the salmon on their own, as they are now probably conditioned to take live fish. (Live fish were the one thing that I got the younger garter to feed on to begin with.) I now have to figure out what to try next, or simply wait them out.

sweatshirt · 06-18-13, 08:36 AM

Hope she gets better

& good luck.

Kettennatter · 06-18-13, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweatshirt

Hope she gets better

& good luck.

Thank you, but she was fine yesterday. Now I just need to figure out what else to feed. (A good dose thiamine (vitamine B1) seems to work quickly.)

bcr229 · 06-18-13, 08:59 AM

According to Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet feeder guppies are ok, but minnows and goldfish are not.

Kettennatter · 06-18-13, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcr229

According to Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet feeder guppies are ok, but minnows and goldfish are not.

I've read elsewhere that people even had problems with feeder guppies.

My garters have taken salmon a few times before, so I may just try to stick it out a this point.

bcr229 · 06-18-13, 09:12 AM

My garter eats f/t mouse pinkies. I had to start by scenting them with the nightcrawlers she had been eating. If yours needs the stimulation of a live feeder, maybe a live pinky scented with the fish will do the trick.

I should get a fresh salmon or tilapia filet for me, just to see if she'd take a little. Besides, it's an excuse for me to have a nice fish dinner.

Ourobouros · 06-18-13, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcr229

My garter eats f/t mouse pinkies. I had to start by scenting them with the nightcrawlers she had been eating. If yours needs the stimulation of a live feeder, maybe a live pinky scented with the fish will do the trick.

I should get a fresh salmon or tilapia filet for me, just to see if she'd take a little. Besides, it's an excuse for me to have a nice fish dinner.

I know sites recommend tilipia but... Um it's not really as good as we'd all like to think. Maybe it's okay for snakes but I know it's not that healthy for people so I'd limit that choice as food. Why is this? Because it's high in omega 6 fatty acids due to the way the fish are farmed... Often genetically modified so that they breed more females than males for population control... And being a farmed fish... It's sanitation is in question. I love tilapia but it's not safe to eat often. Just something I wanted to share just in case. I could be wrong about this being an issue with snakes... But..more info is better than less

Kettennatter · 06-18-13, 09:27 AM

I have tried a scented f/t without much success. The older garter once took them, but it was a fight even then. I know that they once took salmon, and fortunately I have easy access to wild caught salmon. (I agree, I would be cautious about farmed fish.)

I could try guppies, but after what I've just been through, I'm a bit iffy about small freshwater fish.

ErikBush97 · 06-18-13, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kettennatter

Thank you, but she was fine yesterday. Now I just need to figure out what else to feed. (A good dose thiamine (vitamine B1) seems to work quickly.)

I would say pinkies, but hell.. If you can you get a Garter to eat pinkies, you deserve an award.

bcr229 · 06-18-13, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ourobouros

I know sites recommend tilipia but... Um it's not really as good as we'd all like to think. Maybe it's okay for snakes but I know it's not that healthy for people so I'd limit that choice as food. Why is this? Because it's high in omega 6 fatty acids due to the way the fish are farmed... Often genetically modified so that they breed more females than males for population control... And being a farmed fish... It's sanitation is in question. I love tilapia but it's not safe to eat often. Just something I wanted to share just in case. I could be wrong about this being an issue with snakes... But..more info is better than less

Thanks, I didn't know that. And it wouldn't be a staple, more like a once a month thing. I actually do prefer salmon though so will probably just stick with that.

Akuma223 · 06-18-13, 12:01 PM

The best thing to do is to try and get your garter to eat mice. I'm not sure how difficult that is because mine immediately took to eating mice.

brylecc1989 · 06-18-13, 12:02 PM

Glad you knew what to do and were able to help the poor little snakey!

Kettennatter · 06-18-13, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikBush97

I would say pinkies, but hell.. If you can you get a Garter to eat pinkies, you deserve an award.

Depends on the garter. I might try the scenting, braining or chicken broth trick until something works. The older garter has a feeding response that allows it to bypass the tongs and go straight for my fingers. (I ended up using the same big tongs that I use for my BCI.)

The younger one never took to f/t. In fact, she only ever took salmon and live fish, starting with extensive trickery to make her strike in the beginning. Converting to salmon once hungry enough may be the easier route, even if that means having to feed supplements.

Ourobouros · 06-18-13, 12:23 PM

Different garters specialize in certain prey items. A dumb statement that may be restating the obvious but food can vary even further than what's mentioned so far. Frogs, slugs, cut earth worms, lizards, other snakes, fish.. Just listing here. Frogs aren't too good for a number of reasons but look up what kind of garter prefers what I guess.

Kettennatter · 06-18-13, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ourobouros

Different garters specialize in certain prey items. A dumb statement that may be restating the obvious but food can vary even further than what's mentioned so far. Frogs, slugs, cut earth worms, lizards, other snakes, fish.. Just listing here. Frogs aren't too good for a number of reasons but look up what kind of garter prefers what I guess.

Agreed, but I have to overlay that with what is available to me and what type of food requires additional supplements. Mice are great because they provide complete nutrition and are readily available. Most small freshwater fish are now suspect. Salmon (by volume) is very inexpensive and readily available, but requires supplements. Some worms are possible, but would probably reuqire supplements. Frogs, slugs and earthworms are not always available to me.

Just as in the begining, I will have to experiment.