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Old 03-21-13, 05:57 PM   #1
monitorlizard
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What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

After reading various threads about nesting options for monitors in captivity as well as diet in captivity, I began to wonder what should general husbandry practices be like.

-Should we mimic the wild to the closest degree? Using the largest enclosure possible and providing a very deep substrate for burrowing, nesting, etc. Feeding a multitude of prey items that would be found normally in the monitor's natural habitat or at least species similar. Keeping the animals in (for lack of a better term) colonies or pairs similar to the groups of animals normally found in the wild. Providing many temperature gradients and fluctuations withing the enclosure mimicking the rise and set of the sun as will as replicating the annual climate changes the occur within the animal's natural habitat?

-Should we do everything for then animal, providing an almost hospital like environment. Doing this by keeping the animal on a sterile substrate, providing prepared food items loaded with vitamin and mineral supplements, providing only two temperatures within the cage(one with a higher temperature for digestion, and a lower temperature to provide stable conditions that will not influence the monitor internally). Only giving the animal a nest box when the female is gravid.

-Should we do some kind of combination of the two? Perhaps providing food items that are not necessarily found in their natural habitat, but rather are nutritionally the best. Together with that providing a habitat that is similar to their habitat in the wild.
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Old 03-21-13, 07:10 PM   #2
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

I believe in the first option, and strongly reject the second.
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Old 03-21-13, 08:06 PM   #3
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

I am still fairly new to the monitors world. I follow the mimic style husbandry. It is a very hard task due to the lack of credible information on the subject. The amount of research needed is quite intense. I think the important thing is to be able to pass on the information needed on sites like this, drama free (as much as possible) so people will not just wing it out of frustration... This site is the first I have found where the drama is at a minimum and I love it!
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Old 03-21-13, 08:12 PM   #4
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

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Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
I believe in the first option, and strongly reject the second.
This exactly.
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Old 03-21-13, 08:42 PM   #5
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

First option no contest.
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Old 03-21-13, 10:17 PM   #6
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

I don't think there are hard and fast rules. Clearly a sterile environment isn't going to work, but beyond that whether or not you try to emulate the wild depends on the situation and what it is you are trying to emulate (food, nesting etc). Sometimes trying to emulate the wild is good, sometimes it works better if you don't try to emulate the wild and I can think of some very good examples of this, but for now I'd like to ask you a question regarding one of your points:

Quote:
Originally Posted by monitorlizard View Post
-Should we mimic the wild to the closest degree? ... Keeping the animals in (for lack of a better term) colonies or pairs similar to the groups of animals normally found in the wild.
Out of curiosity, where did you get the information that they live in colonies, pairs or groups in the wild?
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Old 03-22-13, 05:25 AM   #7
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

I believe native Arizonian Tuscon Ackies and Phoenix Kimberly rock monitors were observed in their natural habitat (basking stacks inside metal troughs and custom built fiberglass enclosures with pool liner tops) in groups of 3 or more.
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Old 03-22-13, 06:00 AM   #8
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?



...you're onto something there.
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Old 03-22-13, 11:03 AM   #9
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

I should refine my stance a bit. I believe that optimal natural conditions should be replicated. A sunny day during the wet season should be the goal, not a cloudy day during the dry season. That environment should be established as a base to work off of, then modifications should be made according to the behavior of the animal. (e.g. if the monitor spends more than a few minutes at a time on it's basking spot, raise the temps. If it stays in the cooler areas, lower the temps, etc.)
This is referring to the environment. Diet does not necessarily need to be what they eat in the wild, as long as it is healthy, whole prey.
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Old 03-22-13, 05:09 PM   #10
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

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Originally Posted by Pirarucu View Post
I should refine my stance a bit. I believe that optimal natural conditions should be replicated. A sunny day during the wet season should be the goal, not a cloudy day during the dry season. That environment should be established as a base to work off of, then modifications should be made according to the behavior of the animal. (e.g. if the monitor spends more than a few minutes at a time on it's basking spot, raise the temps. If it stays in the cooler areas, lower the temps, etc.)
This is referring to the environment. Diet does not necessarily need to be what they eat in the wild, as long as it is healthy, whole prey.
Do you guys find that preferred temps for savannah/grassland/desert species are the same for rainforest/tropical species with lots of canopy cover?
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Old 03-22-13, 07:03 PM   #11
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

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Originally Posted by smy_749 View Post
Do you guys find that preferred temps for savannah/grassland/desert species are the same for rainforest/tropical species with lots of canopy cover?
From what I know yes, they should use around the same temps, though some rainforest monitors won't use temps on the high end of what grassland species will use. Ultimately it comes down to listening to what your monitor is trying to say.
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Old 03-23-13, 06:22 PM   #12
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

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Originally Posted by crocdoc View Post
I don't think there are hard and fast rules. Clearly a sterile environment isn't going to work, but beyond that whether or not you try to emulate the wild depends on the situation and what it is you are trying to emulate (food, nesting etc). Sometimes trying to emulate the wild is good, sometimes it works better if you don't try to emulate the wild and I can think of some very good examples of this, but for now I'd like to ask you a question regarding one of your points:


Out of curiosity, where did you get the information that they live in colonies, pairs or groups in the wild?
Water Monitors live in fairly large groups. The same might apply to Komodo Dragons, though it appears they are seen only in groups during breeding and feeding. Many monitors probably don't live in groups now when I think about it though.
http://varanidae.org/Vol_2_No_1.pdf
(Varanus Salvator)

http://varanidae.org/4-4.pdf
(Ackies)

And I believe Nile Monitores live in "groups"
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Old 03-23-13, 07:34 PM   #13
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

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Originally Posted by monitorlizard View Post
Water Monitors live in fairly large groups. http://varanidae.org/Vol_2_No_1.pdf
(Varanus Salvator)
There isn't any article in that issue of Biawak mentioning salvator living in groups?

Unless you're referring to the photograph? The caption offers a hint:
"Varanus salvator. Salang Village, Tioman Island, Malaysia."

Be very careful about making assumptions on the basis of photographs.

When you see a photo taken in a village, with several monitors in the shallows looking in the same direction, my money is that, out of frame, there's a fisherman with scraps who has been feeding them on a regular basis.

Many large monitors can be found in concentrations near man-made artificial food sources, such as garbage tips, parks, picnic areas, villages... you name it. They will also gather around carrion. However, this doesn't classify them as living in groups or colonies, for they are there for the food, not each other.

Varanus salvator isn't by nature a colony or group animal.

A solitary Varanus salvator near Singapore. Although I've got very limited experience with this species in the wild, the ones I saw were either concentrated near human habitation or solitary when out in the forest/mangroves, away from humans.


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The same might apply to Komodo Dragons, though it appears they are seen only in groups during breeding and feeding.
Komodo dragons are solitary. They'll gather around carrion. Photographs you see of them lying around in groups are invariably taken near the ranger stations on Rinca and Komodo islands, where the rangers throw out their food scraps (and the buildings offer shade from the heat).

Solitary dragon out on the savannah.


Dragon feeding on scraps next to the rangers' kitchen on Komodo.


Young dragon moving around near the ranger station on Rinca. The animal's posture indicates the unease with which it hangs around other dragons - its arched neck and puffed throat and abdomen are a sign of threat. Almost all of the smaller dragons did this every time they got up to move.


Big male dragon doing the same, on Komodo island. There was another big male nearby and, although they occasional were lying near each other nonplussed, they spent a lot of time hissing and almost scrapping with each other.


\
Quote:
Originally Posted by monitorlizard View Post
The article on two ackies mating in the wild? Mating isn't a sign of living in colonies or groups, either. All monitors must mate, so males and females will get together for that.

However, to keep it on topic, this is one of those areas where it's best not to emulate the wild, for if one wants to breed monitors in captivity it's best to keep them together in pairs. The reasoning behind this is as follows: In the wild, males and females will pair up for a short period each year. That pairing starts when the female is reproductively receptive and they approach each other carefully. The good thing about the wild is that if things don't work out, there's unlimited space in which they can run away.

In captivity, putting two animals together in an enclosure of limited size has its dangers. If they don't get along, there's no room to get away and that's when bad injuries (or even deaths) occur. Consequently, you don't want to be guessing when the female is going to be receptive and constantly reintroducing the pair over and over again. If they get along, then leave them together and it takes away the dangers of reintroduction.

There are 'some' people (no names mentioned) who have made the assumption that since captive monitors seem to get along so well, they must be social animals in the wild. This is not the case. I've seen thousands of monitors in the wild of at least a dozen different species. They've all been solitary, with the exceptions of Komodo dragons around ranger stations, water monitors around human food sources and lace monitors around picnic grounds. In those instances, for all three of those species the interactions between the individuals was anything but social and was almost always antagonistic.

Last edited by crocdoc; 03-23-13 at 07:37 PM.. Reason: spelling error
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Old 03-23-13, 08:21 PM   #14
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirarucu View Post
I should refine my stance a bit. I believe that optimal natural conditions should be replicated. A sunny day during the wet season should be the goal, not a cloudy day during the dry season. That environment should be established as a base to work off of, then modifications should be made according to the behavior of the animal. (e.g. if the monitor spends more than a few minutes at a time on it's basking spot, raise the temps. If it stays in the cooler areas, lower the temps, etc.)
This is referring to the environment. Diet does not necessarily need to be what they eat in the wild, as long as it is healthy, whole prey.
And changes to induce breeding?
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Old 03-23-13, 08:42 PM   #15
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Re: What should Varanid husbandry practices be like?

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And changes to induce breeding?
In a suitable environment, most monitors will breed without a need to replicate a "breeding season".
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