True length of "record" giant pythons. - Page 2

lemon · 08-29-12, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millertime89

Sumatran or Sulawesi? Everyone I've spoken with said Salus get bigger. Regardless do you have pictures of yours? I would love to see them. Got a source for your claim that fluffy was only about 20? I know of 3 retics currently that IMO need to get measured because all three look very close to the 24 ft mark if not over.

I agree with everything else you said though, did you have a chance to read the article in the first thread?

Fluffy being measured

fluffy measurement - snakezilla - YouTube

KORBIN5895 · 07-29-12, 03:58 PM

What's the oldest retic in captivity?

Donnie · 07-30-12, 02:20 PM

Here's one caught in 2002 at 23ft and says that one was found in 1912 measuring 33ft but no evidence for this one.

LiveLeak.com - HALF TON PYTHON: A HUGE Reticulated Python weighing 447kg (985lb)

**Aaron_S** · 07-30-12, 07:38 PM

I personally believe if people keep breeding these giants at smaller and smaller sizes that we're just going to dwarf the species anyway.

Breed monster Suliwesi locales. Raise up some babies for 5 years. Breed the biggest. Keep doing that. Nobody will though. They need their retics to fit into drawers and be popping out eggs by 15 pounds and 12 feet.

StudentoReptile · 07-30-12, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I personally believe if people keep breeding these giants at smaller and smaller sizes that we're just going to dwarf the species anyway.

Breed monster Suliwesi locales. Raise up some babies for 5 years. Breed the biggest. Keep doing that. Nobody will though. They need their retics to fit into drawers and be popping out eggs by 15 pounds and 12 feet.

I hate to bring politics into it, but with all these stupid laws popping up, can you blame them? It almost seems like it will become the semi-"legal" way to keep a retic...if at all.

Mind you, I concur that part of the appeal is their size. Just observing the trend is all.

**Aaron_S** · 07-31-12, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I hate to bring politics into it, but with all these stupid laws popping up, can you blame them? It almost seems like it will become the semi-"legal" way to keep a retic...if at all.

Mind you, I concur that part of the appeal is their size. Just observing the trend is all.

I can blame them. If you can't handle it at full size then why at all? Why stunt and animal purely for OUR self gratification to keep it? That's a load of horseshit blaming it on politics and you and everyone else knows it!

That's PURE animal cruelty!

StudentoReptile · 07-31-12, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I can blame them. If you can't handle it at full size then why at all? Why stunt and animal purely for OUR self gratification to keep it? That's a load of horseshit blaming it on politics and you and everyone else knows it!

That's PURE animal cruelty!

Fundamentally, I agree. Like I said, if I wanted to keep a retic, I want a retic that is gonna get some size on it. If I wanted a 9-12-ft dwarf mutation, I'd just get a carpet python or a BCI or something. To paraphrase the clothing brand slogan, "If you can't run with the big snakes, go home!"

Again, I was just observing a trend, that is all. Realistically, the "purists" still outnumber the weanies IMHO. The keepers with the huge mainland localities will still fervently keep their giants no matter what.

Freebody · 04-14-13, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I can blame them. If you can't handle it at full size then why at all? Why stunt and animal purely for OUR self gratification to keep it? That's a load of horseshit blaming it on politics and you and everyone else knows it!

That's PURE animal cruelty!

I read this and I cant disagree more, I think it purely ones own opinion, has nothing to do with animal cruelty, that's like saying 2 normal people give birth to a dwarf/little person, they should kill it so it cant reproduce the genetic of dwarfism if that's a word < lol, or to save the person the cruelty of living as a small person? or people should not love that person based only on the fact they are small, and overlook there qualities and personality, people should just move on and find something they like in a regular size body, this also has to do with millers post just ofter yours as well where he agrees, its the same with dwarf snakes, I Love retics, I love how they are known to be the most intelligent snakes, very alert, they are my favorite, I happen to own a dwarf retic and I love her very much and I take perfect care of her and enjoy her just the way she is, I don't think by me keeping her its cruel in anyway, so what she wont hit 20 feet, and has pretty much topped out at 11 or so, I don't think shes suffering from the cruelty of someone breeding her. I do agree with what you said about the breed generally being smaller as the year pass, just like you said everyone breeds smaller snakes to keep it legal to own ie why I got a dwarf. and over time snakes will be released in areas they can survive in breed out and inevitably the species will be smaller, but it has nothing to do with cruelty imho, just my 2 cents.

smy_749 · 04-14-13, 04:17 PM

Freebody, your example is irrelevant :P

If you bred 2 normal retics and they had an freak baby who was very small, fine.

But what about if you marry a very short woman, with the intent to have a shorter child. And you teach your children to marry short women/men, so that they can have short children as well.

These dwarfs are being produced intentionally, not accidentally, through selective breeding. Giving birth to a dwarf is just genetic mishap, not selective/intentional.

And yes, humans are stubborn/selfish, and so long as it appeals to our needs, animals will always take the back seat.

I don't know if the snake suffers in any way, though I doubt it. (I don't his fellow retics make fun of him at school) but its just about the fact that we probably would go to the extent of breeding something which suffers, for our own pleasure. (like the albino niles/iguanas who can barely see if anything at all)

KORBIN5895 · 04-15-13, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebody

I read this and I cant disagree more, I think it purely ones own opinion, has nothing to do with animal cruelty, that's like saying 2 normal people give birth to a dwarf/little person, they should kill it so it cant reproduce the genetic of dwarfism if that's a word < lol, or to save the person the cruelty of living as a small person? or people should not love that person based only on the fact they are small, and overlook there qualities and personality, people should just move on and find something they like in a regular size body, this also has to do with millers post just ofter yours as well where he agrees, its the same with dwarf snakes, I Love retics, I love how they are known to be the most intelligent snakes, very alert, they are my favorite, I happen to own a dwarf retic and I love her very much and I take perfect care of her and enjoy her just the way she is, I don't think by me keeping her its cruel in anyway, so what she wont hit 20 feet, and has pretty much topped out at 11 or so, I don't think shes suffering from the cruelty of someone breeding her. I do agree with what you said about the breed generally being smaller as the year pass, just like you said everyone breeds smaller snakes to keep it legal to own ie why I got a dwarf. and over time snakes will be released in areas they can survive in breed out and inevitably the species will be smaller, but it has nothing to do with cruelty imho, just my 2 cents.

You missed the point. He isn't talking about snakes that are genetically smaller as much as he id talking about people who "maintenance feed" to keep their snakes small. That's the difference.

smy_749 · 06-28-13, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I can blame them. If you can't handle it at full size then why at all? Why stunt and animal purely for OUR self gratification to keep it? That's a load of horseshit blaming it on politics and you and everyone else knows it!

That's PURE animal cruelty!

I agree. Unfortunately alot of the hobby has become about aesthetic appeal and pretty colors, not about reptiles. Just about who can come up with the craziest looking nonsense like scaleless snakes and blind albino monitors. I don't doubt that if a color morph was bad for an animals health but looked wonderful, we'd be seeing them everywhere.

Not to take away from those who truly enjoy keeping reptiles AND breeding morphs etc. , I just have issues with those who call everything that isn't white, orange, blue, whatever ....ugly. No appreciation for any animals true beauty anymore

For some reason I thought Aarons comment was the last one till my response got posted. Sorry I changed topic, but I'll leave it there anyways.

**millertime89** · 08-02-12, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I certainly don't think 25 feet is out of the question. I really don't think 30 feet is completely out of the question either, although I concur very very unlikely.

I think one aspect of this discussion calls for a distinction between the "average adult size" of a particular species and the "maximum/record" size of said species. Indeed, 18-20 seems to be the norm for most adult female Burms and maybe 22-24 for female retics. But I don't think its utterly inconceivable they could get larger. Certainly not on a routine basis, but just the right combination of genetics, diet, and dumb luck could result in an abnormally huge animal. And that goes for captive and wild specimens alike.

To address your question more directly, if 30 feet is impossible, what about 29 feet? 28 feet maybe? 27? see where I'm going?

Yes yes, I know...the higher the number, the more unlikely the scenario, but to stick a definite number on the issue "Its IMPOSSIBLE for any snake to get 30 feet ever!" is a little premature, IMHO.

Fluffy is a legend, I'm waiting for one of the 3 people with claims to the longest live snake in captivity to step up and have it verified. Medusa of Monster Snakes, Medusa in Kansas City, and Twinkie at Prehistoric Pets all have a legit shot. That said Medusa at Monsters had a successful clutch this year with some truly monster babies, I'm curious to see how big they are in a few years.

I see what you're getting at but 20+ ft female retics aren't exactly common. Jay at prehistoric pets refuses to breed his monster female because she's nearly irreplaceable. To find a snake like her is a long shot. There really aren't many examples of retics that long out there once they've been verified. Average female length for retics is definitely under 20ft. Usually around the 18ft mark. The right combination of diet, genetics, and dumb luck IS what is producing the 24-25 footers. The just don't happen as often as people would like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie

Here's one caught in 2002 at 23ft and says that one was found in 1912 measuring 33ft but no evidence for this one.

LiveLeak.com - HALF TON PYTHON: A HUGE Reticulated Python weighing 447kg (985lb)

That's just it, there's no evidence for it. Even guiness screwed up when they measured Colossus (its in the pdf in the first post). That one in 2002 was originally quoted at 49 feet, but you see how so many people grossly overestimate a snake's length just because its REALLY BIG. 21-23 feet, more than likely on the lower side, but we'll never know unless someone is willing to accurately measure it.
snopes.com: Big Snake

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I personally believe if people keep breeding these giants at smaller and smaller sizes that we're just going to dwarf the species anyway.

Breed monster Suliwesi locales. Raise up some babies for 5 years. Breed the biggest. Keep doing that. Nobody will though. They need their retics to fit into drawers and be popping out eggs by 15 pounds and 12 feet.

There's dwarf localities, the breeders that want to bring the morphs down in size just get (for ease of discussion, this is a future post I'm working on) "SD" localities and breed the morphs down. Likewise Anery is a dwarf and SD morph and those breeders that are working on bringing some morphs down in size are also bringing Anery (and any potential future dwarf/SD morphs) up. Genetic Stripe was originally a Selayer locality morph, but we're seeing 16+ Genetic Stripes popping up. I'll ask if anyone is bumping up the size of morphs with big Sulas, I know Jake Klotz in the Chicago area is working with them. His Sula Platty Tigers look awesome.

Is that a big snake head? Oh yeah. I wish there was something there for reference though.

**Aaron_S** · 07-31-12, 06:10 AM

The "weanies" are the loudmouths though and get far more attention in all forms of media. Youtube, news stories or what have you.

StudentoReptile · 08-02-12, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:
30? The snake's physiology and the ecosystem won't allow it.

To address your question more directly, if 30 feet is impossible, what about 29 feet? 28 feet maybe? 27? see where I'm going?

Yes yes, I know...the higher the number, the more unlikely the scenario, but to stick a definite number on the issue "Its IMPOSSIBLE for any snake to get 30 feet ever!" is a little premature, IMHO.

Hey Millertime! You haven't addressed this yet!

Just bumping the thread, since I'm sure inquiring minds would like to have a more in-depth explanation as to why it is scientifically impossible for a snake to get 30 feet, or if this is, in fact, only theory?

exwizard · 08-24-12, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

The "weanies" are the loudmouths though and get far more attention in all forms of media. Youtube, news stories or what have you.

If it were legal, I'd have already had a Retic or two and yes, full size mainland Retic. I'm doing this with Burms and I fully expect them to get some size on them in a few years. As long as Burms are legal here, I'm going to keep them. I just wish the same were true of Retics here.