Monitor enclosure discussion thread

[TarantulaSteve]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, I suspect your snake doesn`t need or use a surface temp between approx. 50 to 60c+, the CHE`s are NOT suitable for creating these temps at the basking site simply because the heat is directed all around as previously stated, they also dry out the air to a much greater extent than for example the relatively low wattage halogen (flood) bulbs, though I have and still do use them for raising the ambient temps at times (during the night, very cold weather).
It would be good if you could explain how you provide those basking temps with CHE`s, and also how you control the humidity range in your Varanid enclosures if you primarily use those (size of enclosure, wattages, distance from animal/s, etc)? Thanks!

Hi there, Im actually just finishing off a new enclosure and am hoping to get pics up soon, but will post that later.

Since this is a monitor enclosure discussion thread, I would like to respectfully address what has been previously stated about CHE's. I'm not an expert, so I apologize for the very long post.

CHE's and Halogens work by the same principle. They turn electricity into UV Radiation. The halogen produces light and heat. The CHE just produces heat. This distinction is muddled by the fact that depending on a materials make-up, they can absorb light, which is "stored" as heat. (A dark rock will become hotter in the sunlight than a lighter coloured piece of rock, which will reflect some light which we then perceive as colour.)

To this end, a 60w halogen and 60w CHE will roughly produce the same amount of heat.

Heat travels in three ways. Radiation, Conduction and Convection. We are only concerned with Radiation and Conduction.

Take the temp of the face of your basking bulb. My 65w Halogens are between 325F and 365F, and my 100w CHE has readings between 464F and "Error" (+700F).

Heat travels by radiation in that a warm surface will emit IR at a perpendicular angle towards a colder surface. The much hotter temperature of the face of the bulb is radiating IR straight down to the colder surface of the basking rock. When you place your hand under a basking bulb you are feeling the IR being emitted from the hot bulb to your colder hand. There is far more going on than, "The air is warmer here." Now, the air does have a temp as well, but we really dont need to get into that right now.

Under my CHE, I have a basking rock with surface area 3-4x larger than the face of the CHE. As the CHE radiates heat downwards, CONDUCTION will allow heat to move between objects in contact. So IR hits ~25% of the rock, and since the rock is always in contact with itself, it will attempt to equalize its entire temperature. I use a uniform thickness rock and it does have a perfect temp the entire length of the rock. IE. Directly under the bulb is the same temp as the edges of the rock.


Now, take the temperature of the neck of your bulbs. My 65w Halogens have surface temps between 239F and 296F , and my 100w CHE between 286F and 596F, getting hotter the closer I get to the face. The CHE is a heated coil starting and stopping at the base, with the majority of the coil in a spiral position on the face of the bulb. Its not an aesthetic design, but intended to direct the majority of the heat in the desired direction.
So while there is some "bleed off" with the CHE emitting heat in directions not where you want, we see a similar effect with the Halogens. There are a couple different types of outer core you can find on Halogens, and without testing the styles I dont have, I cant know if one is any better than another in terms of heat efficiency. Im under the impression the bulbs were designed with light output and heat dissipation as the only considerations. Not its ability to direct heat, but again I could be wrong. Ive seen some marketed as "heat bulbs", but dont know if it plays on halogens normal ability to produce heat, or if outer core design will actually reflect additional IR.


When people talk about humidity, they are really referring to relative humidity (rH) which is the % of water vapour in the air, compared to its full saturation level. Humidity is a measurement of water vapour, generally given as parts per million(ppm).
Warmer air can hold more water vapour than colder. So as you heat the air, rH will go down. Humidity levels will always try to equalize themselves. To give you an example, when your outside in the winter you can see your warm humid breath in the air. As the with every dry breath in, you expel humid air from your lungs, as they “bleed” vapour to the dry air you breath in. This is also how lizards dehydrate. Tarantulas and a variety of invertebrates have books lungs which passively absorb oxygen from outside the body, and preferably humid oxygen so they don’t desiccate.

The water vapour will never disappear. The warm air rises and continues to draw in more and more vapour the warmer and higher it gets. It sucks in vapour from the surrounding cooler air, which in turns draws in water vapour from its colder surrounding area, and so on. When the air hits the roof and can no longer heat up, and as reached its desired saturation level, it will slowly make its way to the opposing end of the enclosure, spreading its warmth and vapour in a never ending attempt to perfectly equalize. As the warm humid air hits the relatively cold glass, the air quickly cools and suddenly has an excess of water vapour. This is deposited on the glass as droplets of water, which will eventually slide down to be reabsorbed by the soil where it can start the cycle all over.
Unless I misread something, Varanid keepers don’t add ventilation to the enclosures. Humidity will escape along the sliding glass doors, and any possible cracks that weren’t sealed. As well as everytime you open the enclosure. It is possible for water vapour to pass through dense objects but this is a part of physics that I am stuck on. The point is, in a properly built enclosure humidity is very easy to maintain, and relative humidity is affected by temperature not the heating device itself.

I truly wish I had a halogen and CHE of same wattage. My figures would make a lot more sence than that.

If you made it this far, thanks, and I hope this info helps people with their future enclosure designs. I will be sharing mine shortly.

[psychocircus]

hey guys, I will shortly be setting up a large enclosure for a tree monitor and would like to line the walls of the enclosure with a substance that will allow the monitor even more climbing space.
I have seen cork sheets, cork tiles and coco fiber sheets recommended and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with any of those? My concern with the coco fiber is them getting their toenails caught, but I haven't read of this happening.
Keep in mind tree monitors need 70-100% humidity. Thanks.

[smy_749]

[QUOTE=psychocircus;900743]hey guys, I will shortly be setting up a large enclosure for a tree monitor and would like to line the walls of the enclosure with a substance that will allow the monitor even more climbing space.
I have seen cork sheets, cork tiles and coco fiber sheets recommended and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with any of those? My concern with the coco fiber is them getting their toenails caught, but I haven't read of this happening.
Keep in mind tree monitors need 70-100% humidity. Thanks.[/Q]

I haven't used coco fiber sheets, there is another type of sheeting though. Can't think of the name.

Cork tiles are good, the cork that comes in rolls is really crappy, practically falls apart before you can use any of it.

You could also use spray foam, and then coat it with some sort of epoxy and mix a coco-husk, sand mixture and put it over that. NEherpetological has a section about it on their site with a how-to.

You could purchase backgrounds from universalrock. Or if you want a lot of useable space and have no funds, grab a bunch of vines, and twigs, and put them all over the place.

[psychocircus]

[QUOTE=smy_749;900750]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

hey guys, I will shortly be setting up a large enclosure for a tree monitor and would like to line the walls of the enclosure with a substance that will allow the monitor even more climbing space.
I have seen cork sheets, cork tiles and coco fiber sheets recommended and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with any of those? My concern with the coco fiber is them getting their toenails caught, but I haven't read of this happening.
Keep in mind tree monitors need 70-100% humidity. Thanks.[/Q]

I haven't used coco fiber sheets, there is another type of sheeting though. Can't think of the name.

Cork tiles are good, the cork that comes in rolls is really crappy, practically falls apart before you can use any of it.

You could also use spray foam, and then coat it with some sort of epoxy and mix a coco-husk, sand mixture and put it over that. NEherpetological has a section about it on their site with a how-to.

You could purchase backgrounds from universalrock. Or if you want a lot of useable space and have no funds, grab a bunch of vines, and twigs, and put them all over the place.

thanks for the tips. I was leaning towards the cork tiles. I'm not extremely creative so that is a fairly simple choice.

[BC Arboreals]

Hello Guys,


So I have a question I have build a tree monitor enclosure and I am just working out the humidity and the heat for a few weeks before my monitors arrive. I used large branches I collected myself as well as a lot of moss for the hide boxes. The cage looks great florescent lighting and halogens for the heat. 2 hides and ordered a bunch of cork bark tubes and half tubes.


My question is the maple branches have white spots and moss on them, they look like lichen to me as the tree was alive. My question is if this in any way can harm my monitors. I will attach a picture of the enclosure and the logs in question. I am against bleaching woods and feel that our forests should not have any harmful things that will bother my monitors. But I want to be 100% sure as these guys are my pride and joy and have been waiting a long time to get these animals.

[Snakefood]

Originally Posted by BC Arboreals

Hello Guys,


So I have a question I have build a tree monitor enclosure and I am just working out the humidity and the heat for a few weeks before my monitors arrive. I used large branches I collected myself as well as a lot of moss for the hide boxes. The cage looks great florescent lighting and halogens for the heat. 2 hides and ordered a bunch of cork bark tubes and half tubes.


My question is the maple branches have white spots and moss on them, they look like lichen to me as the tree was alive. My question is if this in any way can harm my monitors. I will attach a picture of the enclosure and the logs in question. I am against bleaching woods and feel that our forests should not have any harmful things that will bother my monitors. But I want to be 100% sure as these guys are my pride and joy and have been waiting a long time to get these animals.

Hey you!! I told you you would get your questions answered here!!! Welcome to our forums!! See you soon.

Darcie

[infernalis]

No harm to the monitors.

I have used bio active (living) tree limbs, dirt, leaves and sod for years, never had a problem.

would enjoy photos of your setup.

[BC Arboreals]

Originally Posted by infernalis

No harm to the monitors.

I have used bio active (living) tree limbs, dirt, leaves and sod for years, never had a problem.

would enjoy photos of your setup.

Thanks infernalis

I figured it would be safe but I wanted to be 100% sure. Once I can post pictures I will set up a threat and show the new cage I build for the Tree monitors.

[psychocircus]

Originally Posted by infernalis

No harm to the monitors.

I have used bio active (living) tree limbs, dirt, leaves and sod for years, never had a problem.

would enjoy photos of your setup.

I'm in the same exact boat. I've read that you should use bleach and water to soak the branches, then soak in water several times to kill parasites. You find this unnecessary?

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

I'm in the same exact boat. I've read that you should use bleach and water to soak the branches, then soak in water several times to kill parasites. You find this unnecessary?

Not only unnecessary, but it defeats the whole bio active concept.

I don't even clean the poop out of my cage, the feces becomes more dirt almost overnight.

Monitors raised in bio active environments seem to flourish better than animals kept in sterile cages.

[psychocircus]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Not only unnecessary, but it defeats the whole bio active concept.

I don't even clean the poop out of my cage, the feces becomes more dirt almost overnight.

Monitors raised in bio active environments seem to flourish better than animals kept in sterile cages.

I will keep this in mind. Should I avoid pine like we do with snakes?

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

I will keep this in mind. Should I avoid pine like we do with snakes?

within reason, Pine needles are going to be part of the forest floor, but logs dripping with sap should be avoided.

Personally, I am a big fan of locust wood logs, Locust is a species of wood commonly called "Iron wood" because of it's rock hard tightly packed fiber cells.

Locust wood is commonly used by old world farmers to make fences, because the stuff never rots.

Same reason I like it in my enclosures.

[BC Arboreals]

Well here's a few pictures of my enclosure. Substrate is 12 inches of peat moss, coco fiber, dirt, and sand and topped with live moss hides are full to the top with live moss. 6 basking spots 100-150. Hide on the floor of the cage and one on the top of the cage. I also have an order of Cork tubes coming in to add more hides in the cage. Also adding fake vines and plants for more cover.

[psychocircus]

Originally Posted by BC Arboreals

Well here's a few pictures of my enclosure. Substrate is 12 inches of peat moss, coco fiber, dirt, and sand and topped with live moss hides are full to the top with live moss. 6 basking spots 100-150. Hide on the floor of the cage and one on the top of the cage. I also have an order of Cork tubes coming in to add more hides in the cage. Also adding fake vines and plants for more cover.

Awesome. Is that cork on the walls or something else?

[BC Arboreals]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

Awesome. Is that cork on the walls or something else?

It's Coco fiber liner, made for growing plants on. It works great for the walls I don't like how cork tiles, they start to smell really foul in a humid enclosure.

First time using it, will see how it works and if I keep it on there or go with cork bark.