Monitor enclosure discussion thread - Page 13

KORBIN5895 · 07-10-12, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

A very good thing to remember for those of us with that information. HOW it is presented is almost as important as what is presented. No one was ever taught how to use a shovel by being bashed in the face with it.

Actually they would learn how to use that shovel as the true weapon it could be.... just sayin.

varanus_mad · 07-10-12, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

Not if it gets a point across, Lankyrob.

Many people take his every word as gospel and when the Moes of the world start talking about what wild monitors do and don't do (based on his claims) here on this forum it's the start of an insidious creep of his nonsense into yet another forum so excuse me for wanting to nip it in the bud.

Because Moe's mate would never do that, right? Lol.

I agree... he wouldnt... never...

The most horrible thing about all of this is... though trying to correct his mis-information... he actually turns people into sort of lesser versions...

crocdoc · 07-10-12, 04:09 PM

Well, if the alternative is to allow the insidious creep of his misinformation (and boasts) into other forums, then so be it.

varanus_mad · 07-10-12, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

Well, if the alternative is to allow the insidious creep of his misinformation (and boasts) into other forums, then so be it.

lesser of two evils.

infernalis · 07-10-12, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

Well, if the alternative is to allow the insidious creep of his misinformation (and boasts) into other forums, then so be it.

Not on here it won't

Lankyrob · 07-10-12, 06:28 AM

Unfortunately in my opinion it wont get you point across, all it does it makes it seem like you have personal issues with someone and that clouds everything that you are saying.

Just stick to either facts and/or your experiences and let people make their own minds up who to listen too without the accusations and pettiness. If you are correct (and i believe you are) then that will speak for itself.

infernalis · 07-10-12, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

Unfortunately in my opinion it wont get you point across, all it does it makes it seem like you have personal issues with someone and that clouds everything that you are saying.

Just stick to either facts and/or your experiences and let people make their own minds up who to listen too without the accusations and pettiness. If you are correct (and i believe you are) then that will speak for itself.

On this particular subject Rob, I simply cannot allow "his" misinformation to propagate at ssnakess...

I care way too much for these lizards to permit one snippet of that garbage to make it to the members here who are trying to get things right.

KORBIN5895 · 07-10-12, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

On this particular subject Rob, I simply cannot allow "his" misinformation to propagate at ssnakess...

I care way too much for these lizards to permit one snippet of that garbage to make it to the members here who are trying to get things right.

Please point out this garbage Wayne because I misses it. Also it's not that we feel his garbage should be allowed but those are quite the lengthy post against Moe just to refute a some garbage.

StudentoReptile · 07-10-12, 07:34 AM

I personally do not have a dog in this fight, other than a general care for the well-being of the animals (in this case, monitors). I have this thread, and others, as well as a handful on Varanus.net. Here my thoughts:

There is a difference between bashing misinformation and inaccurate advice, and bashing the actual individual who is guilty of such. I admit, the line separating the two can be blurred, but there is a distinction. The way I see it is that Wayne, Crocdoc, and others are very passionate about monitors, and as well as the best possible ways to care for and propagate them in captivity. Likewise, as passionate, avid varanid enthusiasts, they take offense to the spread of any misinformation that detracts from this goal.

Looking at some of the statements the "unnamed" has made on several sites, and his own track record, I can conclude he quite simply, does not know as much as he (and many others) thinks he does. Consequently, I do not view him as a reliable source of information regarding monitors. My stance is nothing personal, but just based on his own experience. The evidence has been cited throughout this thread and others, so I won't recant it. In short, it is not much different than a random stranger coming into the LPS that I used to work at, and claims he is an expert on monitors because he has kept many over the years. Yet he keeps returning to purchase another because his keep dying. Yeah, it is a truthful statement that he has kept a lot of monitors over a certain period of time, and using the term "experienced" is debatable, but based on his track record, would anyone consider this person to be a reliable source for learning how to properly care for monitors successfully? The only difference between this hypothetical example and "unnamed" is that UN has been doing it for quite a while, and has developed a name for himself.

In my opinion, the only people who are making this personal are the dedicated followers. It is not Wayne's or Crocdoc's fault that most of the misinformation in question is coming from a singular source, and that source just happens to be a well-known individual in the hobby. I'm a moderator on another forum, and if I know someone is spreading misinformation about anything, I will call them out on it. Again, nothing personal, but it behooves the person to be corrected and benefits anyone listening to be provided with the most accurate, factual information there is. On the forum I moderate, we don't tolerate false information either. So I stand behind Wayne's position on this matter.

infernalis · 07-10-12, 07:17 AM

OK, this is spiraling out of hand.

No one is bashing Moe (a member) disagreements in husbandry techniques are standard in forums.

The person in question has not been named, even if we all know who it is.

So should those of us who know better just sit and allow "cut and paste" (it's pretty darn close) of this psycho babble to sit on a forum read by a rather large audience to remain unchallenged so that some new person can absorb it and possibly use it?

I should hope not.... Goes against everything I stand for.

dehlol · 07-10-12, 07:33 PM

There is a reason many of us steer clear of certain forums that he infests (one in particular comes to mind). One can read half a page of his crap and realize a lot of his fundamentals on varanid keeping are based on his own arrogance.

At some juncture, I actually think he knows what he's doing is wrong, and just a big troll. On the other hand, I feel like he's actually convinced himself he's right like a pathological liar would. He's a really weird fellow that's for sure.

crocdoc · 07-10-12, 09:47 PM

I think 'pathological' is the key word. His need to be seen as the expert and his desire to put everyone else down to maintain that status in his mind does suggest a pathology. It's not hard to find examples of him doing complete 180 degree turns in things he says to avoid being seen as having done something 'wrong'.

He gets away with it by choosing his audience. The posters on his forum have two things in common: Not a single one of them has seen a monitor in the wild (so they'll accept anything he says about wild monitors and the biologists that study them) and most have very little experience with breeding monitors. The ones that do have sent me emails telling me what they really think.

infernalis · 07-10-12, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

The ones that do have sent me emails telling me what they really think.

No emails here, I shout it from moutain tops.

mo9e64 · 07-12-12, 07:24 AM

I just got 8 private messages from 8 different people supporting me,i'm lying of coarse because Wayne can read my supposedly private messages.But lets say i did,firstly they are private i would respect that and secondly it would be heresay.I'm surprised nobody caught CrocDoc's hypocricy-I belieive his claims,but isn't that being hypocritical a objective moderator would have caught that and pointed it out in the very least.I don't feel i'm being bashed just used to bash someone else-but hey that's just an ethical technicality,or a stacked deck of cards.

crocdoc · 07-12-12, 04:41 PM

Moe, your post doesn't make any sense - perhaps if you provide more details we can actually discuss it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

I just got 8 private messages from 8 different people supporting me

Supporting you with what? That all monitors burrow in the wild?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

I'm surprised nobody caught CrocDoc's hypocricy-I belieive his claims,but isn't that being hypocritical a objective moderator would have caught that and pointed it out in the very least.

What's my hypocrisy? What are my claims?

This isn't an attack, I just need more details so I know exactly what it is you're saying.

I also find it a bit lame that your mates are too frightened to say what they think on here, instead of via PMs. If they have information on wild monitors that the rest of us are unaware of, why wouldn't they want to share that here?