Dallas Zoo gorilla tragedy

Retic chic · 03-21-04, 03:12 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Southwest....ap/index.html

JeffT · 03-21-04, 03:24 PM

Ah that totally sucks. I dont know why they wouldnt tranqualize it instead of shoot it...

Scales Zoo · 03-21-04, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Gorilla Fund International, said police could have tried to contain the gorilla with nonfatal techniques, including using rubber bullets or cornering it with a wall of 15-20 people, preferably keepers the animal recognized.

O.K, like they could find 20 people who would volunteer to corner a huge mad gorilla.

Ryan

sketchy4 · 03-21-04, 04:19 PM

yeah that does suck. but who in their right mind would want to surround a gorilla that has twice the strength and power that you do.

SaIiLdVaEnR · 03-21-04, 04:47 PM

It's probably quite a bit more than twice the strength.

Aidan

Scales Zoo · 03-21-04, 07:51 PM

I've seen Elephant's go nuts on T.V a few times, but I don't think I've ever seen a big male gorilla go ape, uh, well. I'm not saying I'd want to see a Gorilla take around out of 15 or 20 people who were cornering it - but I imagine even if they avoided the huge teeth, the large hands and feet could hand out quite a pummelling, and cause injuries like a car accident would.

Ryan

CONCEPT03 · 03-21-04, 08:39 PM

it sucks they had to shoot it but i would like to see someone shoot it with rubber bullets and live. the police did what they had to to protect themselves and the visitors

sketchy4 · 03-21-04, 08:49 PM

this is a bit off topic but what would you rather be shot with? rubber bullets or pepper balls?

Mike177 · 03-21-04, 11:54 PM

the dallas zoo is already in a low on cash and i dont think this is going to help them out, i heard that they are giveing away free tickets to try to get people to go back

JonD · 03-22-04, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scales Zoo
O.K, like they could find 20 people who would volunteer to corner a huge mad gorilla.

Ryan

LOL or have someone dress like a female Gorilla, with the possibility of being violated!!!

Double J · 03-22-04, 12:13 AM

20 people could not detain a gorilla bare handed. It is just not possible. Remember... the upper body strength of a gorilla is immense.... Though they are terrestrial quadrapeds.... their arms are still made for lifting themselves into trees. This requires immense strength.. especaily condiering their weght (adult males are 180 lbs)
Also...... there was far too quick of a reaction on the part of the police officers. 20 feet away from an "angry gorilla" is quite a distance. Gorillas put on more of a show than an full fledged assault....... they will run at you baring teeth.. but this is a threat, and is instead mean't to drive you away. If you back down.. or show signs of submission, the gorilla will ease up. Police are not proplery trained to know and read gorilla behaviour.... though they were "just doing their job"...... I don't think it was their place to shoot with guns to begin with. I am sure there were tranquilizers on hand of some sort.... there had to have been. Thier job was to get people to safety.... that is rounding them up, and getting them somewhere safe. These animals are not like a rabid pitbull...... they are far too rare to be shot like an armed robber. I think the situation was handled wrong.... instead.. there should have been protocols in place in case this happened. If there were, they certainly were not followed.
Tomorrow.... I will talk to my human evolution prof... she is a primatologist... I will get her PhD opinion on the matter and get back to you.
Double J

MouseKilla · 03-22-04, 08:41 AM

I'm not usually one to defend cops (especially ones that wear cowboy hats) but in this situation I would have shot the gorrilla in a heartbeat.

In the Toronto Star article the representative from the zoo didn't accept the blame for the animal escaping, he tried to make it sound like it was the fault of the crowd of people around the cage.

"We believe he was taunted and tormented by a group of children. We have scoured the area and we can't see any signs at all of any wrongdoing on our part, such as a door left unlocked. We honestly don't know how he got out."

WHAT?? Here's a sign of wrongdoing: THE GORRILLA GOT OUT! We all keep animals here, who's fault is it if your 20 foot retic gets out of his cage? How can you blame a bunch of kids? Did the kids let the beast out?? Talk about BS! It's totally, 100 percent the zoo's fault this whole thing happened, not the kids and not the cops.

The cops had to worry about making sure the animal didn't hurt any MORE people, they didn't have time to think of preserving endangered wildlife, the creature had already mauled at least one toddler.

As for tranquilizing the animal, the zoo staff had the period of time between the escape and the arrival of the cops to do that themselves. They didn't have the stuff close enough at hand to use it before the cops did what they had to do to prevent people from being killed by a dangerous, escaped animal and as a result the animal is now dead. Who's responsibility is it to keep gorrilla tranquilizers handy? Seems to me that's the zoo's department, not the cop's.

I would hate to think about how secure their other enclosures are if they can't find a single thing wrong with one that obviously has gorrilla sized flaw. That zoo should be shut down until someone who knows what they're doing can audit the place and the necessary improvements are made and the idiots in charge are fired and replaced with competent people.

brandi · 03-22-04, 11:46 AM

very sad, but i agree with mousekilla. If one of our animals escape it is our own fault, and we know it. if one of us gets bit handling a venomous animal, we all know we are responsible, because we accepted that risk. A zoo is not different.

Double J, you brought up a lot of good points, but the problem with "ifs" is they are just that, "ifs" and not "were". Tranquillizers were not immediately on hand, or used in time, or people didn't know how to use them. A thorough audit does need to be done, but that doesn't fix what happend due to human negligence. As far as the gorilla just showing agression, or bluffing, i really don't think grabbing a kid in its mouth qualifies as "bluffing".

And for the "20 foot" thing, if anything the officers waited too long. I'm told Canada has pretty strict gun laws, but if you've ever had law enforcement or concealed weapons training you will learn the "21 foot rule". basically it shows that a human being, armed only with a knife, can close 21 feet and deliver a wound before an armed person can draw their weapon and fire. I don't know what the gorilla/human rate of speed is, but if i was that officer i would not have waited around to figure it out.

anders_240sx · 03-22-04, 12:08 PM

The gorillas parents are Charles and from the Toronto Zoo... since Josephine cannot produce milk, the gorilla was hand fed. So I think there is a lot more than simply the gorilla escaping .... the door had to be unlocked... besides its not like gorillas to go nuts .... typically when they escape, they quickly go back into the comforts of their cage. I do fully blame the police for killing the gorilla, however, the zoo should have reacted much faster to ensure the gorilla was tranquilized ... its all based on opinion

Cake · 03-22-04, 12:21 PM

I think there are alot of misconceptions regrading gorilla behaviour. Gorilla's are by nature extremelly teritorial and will protect themselves with force if they feel threatened. When he broke free of his enclosure and was faced with 20 or so people looking at him he perceived all of them as threats. Most likely people began to scream, run away, yell, cry, ect you know the natural human way to react to something they do not understand, or fear. These loud noises and lots of frantic movement would have freaked the gorrila out, and emediatly put him on the defensive.

Had everyone relaxed and not freaked out, odds are he would have gone into an aggresive display of charging, cheast beating, and vocalizations, showing his teeth, nothing to serious.

I do not mean to put the blame on the people observing the situation, as it is not thier fault that the gorilla got out, but i think what the gorilla did was a perfectly natural reaction to being in a threatening situation. The blame for the situation must squarely be placed on the Dallas Zoo.

As for the cops shooting the gorilla, well i wasn't there so i cant say if it was warrented or not. Apparently the Zoo keepers were on their way to get tranqs to take it down, but if the gorilla was chomping on a kids head then id have to say they did what was necessary.

Reports say that the kids were teasing him and this would have prevoked agressive behavior on the gorillas part. I think that this is a lesson learned in that we need to show the respect that these 300lbs animals deserve. To many times have i seen kids at the zoo throwing things into enclosures or pushing sticks into cages right infront of their parents and them saying nothing to them, ive approached several of them asking them to stop, explaining that they are bothering the animals. The Toronto Zoo lost an Orangutan to people throwing oreo's into the enclosure 5-10 years ago.