Calcium supplementation for baby snakes.

[RepTylE]

Okay, now I rarely if ever see any mention of supplementing feeders for baby snakes. The reason that I bring it up is that I know that pinkies (both rat and mice) are low in calcium. Their bone structure is small and less developed.
If you were to supplement would it help the early growth in babies?

I am assuming that a calcium/ phosphorous ratio of 1.5 -1 or 2.0-1 would be about right.

[Jeff_Favelle]

The reason that I bring it up is that I know that pinkies (both rat and mice) are low in calcium.

Interesting claim. Have any proof?

[RepTylE]

Not so much proof just the conception that their skeletal structure is obviously undeveloped like all infant mammals.
Besides, that was the reason I started this thread, to find out about this topic.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ever seen a pinky gut filled with the mom's milk? That's PURE calcium my friend.

[RepTylE]

What if snakes are unable to metabolize it in that form? If a person is lactose intolerant, they lack the enzymes to digest milk products so what nutritional benefit do they get from it?

The only lab analysis that I have for calcium levels are for adult mice and rats.

lol, I knew that I'd be badgered on this one. Jeff you bugger lol

[Jeff_Favelle]

The milk a pinky sucks out of the mom mouse is NOT the same chemical composition as the "milk" that is digesting in its belly. LOL! Not even close. And not to mention, the snake doesn't stick a straw into the pinky's belly to suck the milk out. By the time the pinky's skin and organs break down, the "milk" in side has changed DRASTICALLY.

[RepTylE]

Changed into what? Do you know if a snake could derive nutritional benefit from partially digested mother's milk? I think that they would derive the calcium from the pinkie's skeletal structure which is undeveloped.

[Jeff_Favelle]

They derive calcium from wherever they can get it. Their body's chemical processes doesn't discriminate from the source, LOL! Why do you think they do?

Do you know if a snake could derive nutritional benefit from partially digested mother's milk?

I would say proof is in the pudding. I've raised hundreds of baby snakes on pinkies and its all good, believe me. I don't care what people might THINK would happen. I care what actually happens. And pinkies have proven more than enough. I even fed pinkies to baby monitors without suppliment and as we all know, monitors grow ultra-fast, doubling their body size (and skeleton as a result) within a matter of weeks and months. I've raised those babies purely on pinkies and they have since has eggs of their own! After only 9 months! Crazy. Frank Retes has done this with a LOT more generations that one.

Proof is in the pudding, not the theory.

[Invictus]

Never once supplemented my snakes' diets, likely never will. Our baby corns are growing like weeds, and they've been moved up to fuzzies, but even when they were on pinkies, they kept growing and growing and growing. No need to supplement if they are showing perfect health.

[RepTylE]

Now we are getting somewhere. My prior experience was with geckos and you know how important it is to supplement their diet . I just thought that there might be a snake equivalent for a need to supplement.
Finding info is not all that easy so I had to resort to the slings and arrows of forum discussion.

[Jeff_Favelle]

No need to supplement if they are showing perfect health.

And that's exactly what its all about Invictus. Why screw around with something that has proven to work for just about ever? Concentrate on things that are going WRONG with husbandry, not on things that already work!! LOL!

[Linds]

Originally posted by RepTylE
Now we are getting somewhere. My prior experience was with geckos and you know how important it is to supplement their diet . I just thought that there might be a snake equivalent for a need to supplement.

The reason geckos, and any other herbivorous, omnivorous, or insectivorous lizard needs supplementation, is because they are not eating 100% nutritionally complete items. Rodents are whole prey items, hence no supplementation is required.

[RepTylE]

Well off on a bit of a tangent here.....the lizards mentioned eat insects in the wild and don't need to have them sprinked with supplements. In captivity they do.

[Linds]

Because of lack of diversity. Feeder insects do not eat all the nutrient-rich foods found in the area those animals come from, as well as it is impossible to feed the diverse variety of insects that those animals would naturally find in their natural habitats. For herbivorous animals they may feed on over a hundred different plants, fruits and flowers in the wild. Many of which you cannot get in captivity since they are tree leaves and the like. Since we cannot possibly compete with their natural diets, we must supplement

[Big Mike]

If you feel that they need supplementation, supplement the diet of the feeder animals. Healthy, well fed rodents will no doubt be better for snakes than poorly fed rodents.

On the other hand, a very experienced reptile vet mentioned to me that it would be beneficial to occasionally supplement a snake's diet by putting vitamins into the dead mouse before feeding. This might be a good idea if you don't know where the rodents are coming from and what they were fed.