92 days later...

Teal · 09-30-12, 02:45 PM

Some of you may remember my desperate post months ago, attempting to incubate a surprise clutch laid 7 days after capture from a WC Kingsnake.

I did my best with what materials I could get.

But keeping the temperatures consistent never happened... they fluxed from low 70s to mid 90s before I gave up trying to control them, and then fluxed that much and more in the ongoing weeks.

The eggs started to get moldy. Some dried out. But some remained plump looking...

So I waited...

...With a container of rotten smelling eggs next to my bed.

I couldn't separate the bad ones because she laid the clutch during the night and they were all fused together by the time I found them.

60 days... nothing.

70 days... nothing.

I stopped paying attention to how long it had been shortly after that.

Finally, yesterday, I accepted that my eggs weren't going to hatch and moved the wretched smelling set up outside to be discarded.

Except, when I went to discard them today...

There was a hatchling...

Dead.

The temperatures here are over 100F during the day. The poor lil critter was inside a tupperware tub in the heat.

ONE day sooner, and he would have hatched indoors and been fine.... ONE day. These eggs were laid on June 30 - that's 92 days ago. I stopped using a heating pad on them after 60-something days. But against all odds, this little hatchling came out perfectly fine... except that it was a little too late, because I'd given up on the eggs.

I sat there crying over this poor little hatchling... I am STILL crying over it. I don't expect sympathy from anyone... I just wanted people to know that despite everything, these guys can apparently be pretty darn hardy.

I've got the whole set up back next to my bed. There are two eggs that are still plump, and I can't stop glancing at them. I tried to talk myself into cutting them open gently... but I couldn't do it. Because the eggs are so moldy and discoloured (including the one that hatched), I can't see anything when I candle them and I don't want to cut open a hatchling.

So, I am back to waiting... waiting and HOPING I didn't accidentally kill the only hatchling to survive my horrible lack of snake husbandry skills

jaleely · 09-30-12, 06:37 PM

What kind of snake eggs are they? Have you looked up how long this species incubates for? Maybe you can take a soft cloth and rub the outside to see if you can get it to candle. Maybe a really strong lighted flashlight..

If they are that far along, and one came out...i would actually suggest opening the remaining eggs.

it may be too late, but...i'd open them if that species has already incubated for an appropriate amount of time.

Teal · 09-30-12, 11:12 PM

Thanks for the reply. They are California Kingsnake eggs, which I was told and read incubate up to 70 days.

Thank you for the suggestion of trying to wipe them down... I'll see if that helps at all. When I first started incubating them, all I had was moss from my tarantula set ups, and the eggs look like they absorbed some colour from it... but I'll see what I can do.

If I'm not able to candle them... is there a method for opening them that would be the safest? Do I make a small slit in them and see if something emerges after that, or do I fully open them up?

jaleely · 09-30-12, 11:17 PM

google slitting snake eggs
i haven't done it before, unfortunately...but i think at this stage they would be fully formed and any slitting wouldn't harm them if done in the right way. I think you kind of pinch the skin of the egg a bit, or go towards an edge with a blade....
don't know for sure. Def google that process *lol*
i really hope they are still alive in there : (
Let me know!

Skumbo · 10-01-12, 02:21 AM

On the super off chance youre near me - where do you live?

As a "flashlight" guy - i could pop 1200 lumens under one of those eggs and you'd see every detail without cutting them open, lol.

as for the topic at hand - its really unfortunate, but its already happened - and all you can do is work with where you're at. Who knows, humans have a "9 months" expectancy, the longest pregnancy on record - from the 40's was almost twice as long (375 days) due to "slowly developing fetus".

Jlassiter · 10-01-12, 02:28 AM

They are Dead In The Egg....I can almost guarantee it....
I'd slit the eggs to see.....

Teal · 10-01-12, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jlassiter

They are Dead In The Egg....I can almost guarantee it....
I'd slit the eggs to see.....

Good thing we didn't bet on it

I finally got up the bravery to get the eggs open...

Two perfectly formed, but dead, neonates (I can't call them hatchlings, because they didn't hatch, right?)

Should I have opened the eggs at 70 days? 80 days? I didn't realize that sometimes you have to open up the eggs... that they wouldn't hatch on their own with a perfectly formed snake inside... or else I would have a long time ago.

I feel horrible about all of this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skumbo

On the super off chance youre near me - where do you live?

As a "flashlight" guy - i could pop 1200 lumens under one of those eggs and you'd see every detail without cutting them open, lol.

as for the topic at hand - its really unfortunate, but its already happened - and all you can do is work with where you're at. Who knows, humans have a "9 months" expectancy, the longest pregnancy on record - from the 40's was almost twice as long (375 days) due to "slowly developing fetus".

Thanks for the reply! But I'm in northern California anyways

Jlassiter · 10-01-12, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teal

Good thing we didn't bet on it

I finally got up the bravery to get the eggs open...

Two perfectly formed, but dead, neonates (I can't call them hatchlings, because they didn't hatch, right?)

Should I have opened the eggs at 70 days? 80 days? I didn't realize that sometimes you have to open up the eggs... that they wouldn't hatch on their own with a perfectly formed snake inside... or else I would have a long time ago.

I feel horrible about all of this.

Thanks for the reply! But I'm in northern California anyways

You shouldn't have to slit the eggs ever...
If temps and humidity and air flow is correct then they will hatch on their own every single time at around 65 days at a constant 80F....Hotter temps will make the eggs hatch sooner and cooler temps will make the eggs hatch later.

If the temps spike during incubation it will kill the embryo at whatever stage it was in development. That is what happened to your snakes a month ago.
They were probably fully formed a month ago but were dead due to temps, air flow, humidity or mold.........

Don't worry to much....I still get DIEs and I've been doing this for a long time....Next time just provide a nice, constant 80F, high humidity and good air flow and they will hatch.

Teal · 10-01-12, 12:56 PM

Thank you for your information I appreciate it!

I wasn't at all prepared for a WC snake I'd had a week to lay a clutch... and I put together what I could with the resources I had. It took me almost two weeks just to get some... perlite? Or whatever that stuff is called (I don't remember now, but it was the right stuff at the time) because of how isolated we are.

I honestly thought the embryos were dead A LONG time ago, because of the temperature fluxes... but these were fully formed lil guys. The temps were NEVER steady, and there wasn't any significant changes around the time they should have hatched... so even though they developed properly in crappy conditions, I guess it wasn't good enough for them to hatch? Definitely disappointing.. but at least now I know, in case I ever decide at some point to raise snakes (which I don't think I will... I'm more of an arachnid person).

rmfsnakes32 · 10-01-12, 01:05 PM

Just keep in,mind whenever you have a WC snake eggs are always a possibility so keep some stuff on hand

jaleely · 10-01-12, 10:46 PM

You couldn't have known when you got her. I'm glad you tried to take care of them though. It's too bad it didn't work out. That sucks! : (
Tis life, but it still sucks.
At least your female king is doing well and not harmed. You still have her!

**millertime89** · 10-01-12, 11:42 PM

In your situation, with no way to incubate them I probably would've let mom be mom. But hindsight is always 20/20. Really sorry for the loss regardless, how's mom?

Teal · 10-03-12, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmfsnakes32

Just keep in,mind whenever you have a WC snake eggs are always a possibility so keep some stuff on hand

I'd never kept a WC snake before... I know, logically, that it's a possibility... it just honestly didn't occur to me at the time. Keeping WC snakes isn't something I plan to do on a regular basis

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaleely

You couldn't have known when you got her. I'm glad you tried to take care of them though. It's too bad it didn't work out. That sucks! : (
Tis life, but it still sucks.
At least your female king is doing well and not harmed. You still have her!

Actually, I released the female back where I found her once I realized the eggs were going bad I felt horrible for taking a healthy, reproducing female from the wild and all her offspring... though then I wondered if it was bad to release her. I'm just not cut out for this apparently! lol She was looking thin after laying, so I waited a few days and fed her a good meal first... I hope that wasn't bad, too

Quote:

Originally Posted by millertime89

In your situation, with no way to incubate them I probably would've let mom be mom. But hindsight is always 20/20. Really sorry for the loss regardless, how's mom?

Thank you for your input

I feel like an utter fool for not letting her tend her own eggs... I don't know why I thought they needed to be incubated (though something in the back of my mind is telling me that maybe that is what I was advised).

I know to yall, I probably sound so uneducated and naive... but I want to thank everyone who has been kind enough to share their knowledge with me, without berating me too badly for screwing up. This was definitely a tough learning experience, and I am saddened that I didn't learn soon enough to make a difference to the fate of my lil guys

jaleely · 10-04-12, 08:47 PM

oh i thought you had gotten her from a store or something that labeled her as wild caught. that kind of sucks even more...sorry lol
yeah, nothing gained from saying negative things, especially now, and especially since you seem regretful and it was a pretty icky situation in the end.
: (

Gregg M · 10-05-12, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teal

I feel like an utter fool for not letting her tend her own eggs... I don't know why I thought they needed to be incubated (though something in the back of my mind is telling me that maybe that is what I was advised).

She would have never tended to her own eggs. King snakes do not maternally incubate their eggs. In the wild and in captivity, the female will find a place where proper temps and humidity will remain stable and she will eave them to hatch on their own. They needed to be artificially incubated otherwise they would have had no chance at all.