enclosure size

rivkah · 09-09-12, 11:52 AM

Hi,

I have what might seem like a really silly question to most but... How an enclosure be too big for a snake?

I understand that too small causes stress, and that to big could cause different issues when it takes more energy to catch a prey item than is in the prey item.

I have my first snake, a little ring neck, about 5-6 inches long currently living in a bowl, about 10wX12h, soft soil, with moss and palm trees and rocks. Although I have not seen it, it has eaten a could of red worms... and appears to be growing. So... I am thinking about moving it to a larger enclosure/terrarium. Would a 5-6 inch snake be comfortable in a 10g (22wX7dX16h)? Or would this be too big?

I understand lizards, newts, frogs, toads, etc, and thier enclosure requirements and what too large would be... but snakes are just so alien to me.

Thank you in advance.

Rivkah

Kingsnakechris · 09-09-12, 12:05 PM

Try to go with a critter keeper. It's better than a bowl but not as stressful as a 10 gal.
They sell them everywhere and are fairly cheap....

rivkah · 09-10-12, 07:25 AM

When you say "critter keeper" what size are you thinking. The bowl, not your traditional fish bowl" has approximately 80 square inches of floor space, not including the items for the snake to crawl on, over or under. The custom 10g tank (22"X7") has 154 square inches and a standard 10g has 200 square inches'

I hestitate to use a plastic container: how do you add supplemental heating (heat lamp) without the plastic warping or melting? The ring neck is not your typical basking perferring instead to bask under a warmed rock as opposed to on a warmed rock.

I have kept/bred fish for almost 50 years and newts/toads/frogs/turtles for almost as long. I understand them, those creatures make sense to me, but this snake is incredibly alien. Like the rest of my terrariums, I want to basically place a hunk of its natural enviroment into a glass box.
Quirky thing about most critters: the more hiding places you give it, the more it is out in the open. I also have always had a knack for the difficult creatures: I bred angels, working on a new color strain, but could never keep a guppy alive.

I have looked through pictures of snake houseing on this site, as well as others, with most of those snakes being handled on a regular basis. To me this snake is to be fed, cared for and watched, but not handled (like newts, fish etc). As from what I have read and from those that I have talked to, this is the most correct what of keeping this particular species of snake, being shy, secretive, and reclusive.

My questions might seem silly to seasoned snake keepers, taking the answers for granted as common knowledge. But, I just can't get my head around sizing: too small vs. too big.

Thank you for your paitence with me.

Rivkah

StudentoReptile · 09-10-12, 07:55 AM

I believe ZooMed, T-Rex and Flukers all make a mini undertank heat pad specifically for those plastic Kritter Keepers.

shaunyboy · 09-10-12, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivkah

Hi,

I have what might seem like a really silly question to most but... How an enclosure be too big for a snake?

I understand that too small causes stress, and that to big could cause different issues when it takes more energy to catch a prey item than is in the prey item.

Rivkah

a small tank helps a snake feel more secure,so less stressed mate

a tank thats too big can cause a snake to feel insecure,it could lead to a snake acting stressed

cheers shaun

Kingsnakechris · 09-10-12, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivkah

When you say "critter keeper" what size are you thinking. The bowl, not your traditional fish bowl" has approximately 80 square inches of floor space, not including the items for the snake to crawl on, over or under. The custom 10g tank (22"X7") has 154 square inches and a standard 10g has 200 square inches'

I hestitate to use a plastic container: how do you add supplemental heating (heat lamp) without the plastic warping or melting? The ring neck is not your typical basking perferring instead to bask under a warmed rock as opposed to on a warmed rock.

I have kept/bred fish for almost 50 years and newts/toads/frogs/turtles for almost as long. I understand them, those creatures make sense to me, but this snake is incredibly alien. Like the rest of my terrariums, I want to basically place a hunk of its natural enviroment into a glass box.
Quirky thing about most critters: the more hiding places you give it, the more it is out in the open. I also have always had a knack for the difficult creatures: I bred angels, working on a new color strain, but could never keep a guppy alive.

I have looked through pictures of snake houseing on this site, as well as others, with most of those snakes being handled on a regular basis. To me this snake is to be fed, cared for and watched, but not handled (like newts, fish etc). As from what I have read and from those that I have talked to, this is the most correct what of keeping this particular species of snake, being shy, secretive, and reclusive.

My questions might seem silly to seasoned snake keepers, taking the answers for granted as common knowledge. But, I just can't get my head around sizing: too small vs. too big.

Thank you for your paitence with me.

Rivkah

Not a problem, I'm not an expert on this species but I know to big of an enclosure is almost as bad as to small, the plastic cages would seem to be the best option. You can get a pretty cheap mini UTH for them that will allow the snake to go under his hide and warm up much like you say they do. And without a pic it's gonna be pretty hard to guess which size critter keeper.

Falconeer999 · 09-10-12, 01:00 PM

I admit that I'm new to keeping reptiles, but this 'enclosure is too big' thing has been hard for me to fully grasp. I understand animals need to feel secure, but it seems counter intuitive to say that there is 'too big' of an enclosure. These are all animals that have lived in the wilderness for thousands/millions of years. Can, say, a 40gal vs. 20gal tank cause that much difference when the natural habitat is, oh, a few trillion gallons?

I would think as long as you have enough places for them to feel secure within a large enclosure, they would do just as well? Is perhaps that's the difference? Most people providing a large enclosure are not also providing enough spaces for them to hide or feel comfortable, and that's the reason for the automatic cry of "large creates stress"? They get a 40/55/100gal space and throw a little log in each side and wipe their hands?

Again, I'm new to this and just want to try to understand.

rivkah · 09-10-12, 01:24 PM

Is there a formula as to what is the "right" or "correct"? My understanding is that the snake should be able to stretch out its entire body lenght. But from what I have seen of "snake enclosures", my ring neck lives in a massive enclosure, being not less than 2 times his body length in any direction. S/he is appears to be stress-free: no fast or jerky movements, comes out to roam around/hang out, soaks in his water dish, and stays out when I approach the enclosure, which sits on my kitchen counter next to the sink. I did re-measure: at the leve of the moss, almost the wide point, it is about 11.5 inches across, making it closer to 100 square inches.

I would love to forward pictures of this snake, his enclosure as well as some of my terrarium so you all would see what I am trying to say. (please feel free to talk me through, but remember talk s-l-o-w, I am not that technological) The snake is about 5 inches long and about half as thick as an electrical cord.\

Truthfully, I feel like a kid again because of this snake, it has opened a whole new world of discovery to me. It is still an alien... but I an trying learn

Lankyrob · 09-10-12, 01:43 PM

I have put all my hatchling snakes into adult sized enclosures (except my gtp) and had no issues at all, i DO COVER around 90% of the floor space with foliage etc so thatthey can freely move around the viv without being seen.

rivkah · 09-10-12, 06:52 PM

kingsnakechris: if the snake were curled up it would fit on a 1/2 dollar. I am working on getting good pictures of the snake and its enclosure.

Falconer999: We all understand the 'too small': would you want to spend the rest of your life living in something the size of closet with nothing to do and no where to go.

I have kept fish/newts/frogs/turtles, etc (no snakes) for decades, so I will speak to them: If it takes more energy to catch/eat a food item than is in the food item, the enclosure is too big. As a creature wanders through its natural world, along the way it will stumble upon various food items. Generally, keepers to not feed every day, nor do they leave food items in the enclosure for the creature to eat later at its leisure. This is the difference between "outside" ("trillion gallons") and life inside a glass box, the availability of food items vs. the distance needed to travel to get that item.

I think you also pointed out the different types of creature keepers. Some believe that simple is better, easier to maintain, and better for viewing the creature. Others beleive that elaborate terrariums/vivariums complete with soil substrate, live plants, water feature with filter are eaiser to maintain, especially when under populated.

There is no 'one right way' to house a creature, but there are many wrong ways. Keep an open mind, use your best judgement, build something that is correct for the creature and something that appeals to you.

alessia55 · 09-10-12, 09:39 PM

A 10gal should be fine if you cover most of the floor space and have lots of places for hiding. Add fake plants and whatnot to cover the open spaces, and he'll be fine. Because of his size, I'd consider putting two small water dishes, one on either side.

rivkah · 09-11-12, 10:10 AM

Alessia55,

Thank you for the repsonse and suggestion. I will will include two (2) water dishes for its comfort. Generally, the terrariums that I construct are heavily planted, creating ideal hiding places everywhere.

Another seemingly silly question: I know that snakes, as a whole can not climb up glass, but they can lift a portion of their bodies looking like they are slithering up glass. Is there any percentage of how much of their body they can raise? If I have a 10 inch snake, could he crawl up and over the top of something 8 inches high?

Thanks again

Kingsnakechris · 09-11-12, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivkah

Alessia55,

Thank you for the repsonse and suggestion. I will will include two (2) water dishes for its comfort. Generally, the terrariums that I construct are heavily planted, creating ideal hiding places everywhere.

Another seemingly silly question: I know that snakes, as a whole can not climb up glass, but they can lift a portion of their bodies looking like they are slithering up glass. Is there any percentage of how much of their body they can raise? If I have a 10 inch snake, could he crawl up and over the top of something 8 inches high?

Thanks again

Not sure about the percentage of their bodies they can raise up, but, snakes in general are GREAT escape artists! If it's possible for them to escape, they will! It's Best to eliminate any possibility of escape, regardless of size.

rivkah · 09-12-12, 06:09 AM

Kingsnakechris,

Yep, I have heard that about snakes... I was looking for a way to be certain that escape would completely not be possible. If the ring snake gets loose he will never be found... and maybe killed/eaten by the cats.

Because of his small size, a screen cover makes me nervous, I am not sure if he could wiggle his way through the spacing of the wire. With a glass cover the humidity might be too high (almost 100%).

Still learning, still experimenting, still thriving for the "perfect" set up, before I move him into a "permanant" enclosure.

I appreciate all the responses, all the ideas, and, of course, all the paitence.

Rivkah

shaunyboy · 09-12-12, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivkah

Alessia55,

Thank you for the repsonse and suggestion. I will will include two (2) water dishes for its comfort. Generally, the terrariums that I construct are heavily planted, creating ideal hiding places everywhere.

Another seemingly silly question: I know that snakes, as a whole can not climb up glass, but they can lift a portion of their bodies looking like they are slithering up glass. Is there any percentage of how much of their body they can raise? If I have a 10 inch snake, could he crawl up and over the top of something 8 inches high?

Thanks again

as long as a carpet python can get its head over an edge,then the rest of its body will follow

cheers shaun