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Old 05-13-10, 09:48 AM   #1
stlphotogal
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sigh - mites

so we've had our Ball for about 6 weeks and I took him to the vet about three weeks ago as he hadn't yet eaten and I thought I saw a mite - vet inspected closely and said he saw NO indication of mites and adjust temps for ball to make warmer. I did and cage temps have been quite steady at 85 cool side, 92-95 warm side and about 85 @ night all over - humidity ranges between 50-60%. I noticed a small black bug crawling on our guys back the other night and for the last two days he's been sitting in his bowl soaking. His eyes aren't cloudy and belly isn't pink so I don't think he's going to shed. He's still not eaten (but doesn't appear to be losing weight) and I am wondering if he's got mites (more than one). I've closely inspected his heat pits and chin and don't see any mites (but am still a bit nervous of grabbing his head) and don't see any around his eyes either. I've been doing some research and figured that I'd treat his tank/him with a NIX treatment to be safe. I've read and re-read the instructions and am a bit confused as to when I can return him to his enclosure and when I should provide water (i.e. for him to drink while he's in rubbermaid container or his large bowl once he's back in tank)...any help would be greatly appreciated as this is our first snake so it's all new to me.
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Old 05-13-10, 12:10 PM   #2
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Re: sigh - mites

With Nix treatment you just spray the enclosure AND the snake and put him right back in. Nix at the concentration of one 56mL bottle to 1 gallon water is not toxic to the snakes so make sure you spray around his face and heat pits and throat really well. You leave the water bowl out for 24 hours to allow the Nix to seep between his scales and kill all the mites before he goes and soaks it all off. You most likely won't see them on him unless the infestation is really severe; however, you will find them in his water dish. They look like blackish-brown sesame seeds with tiny hairlike legs. I would say a treatment can't hurt. Make sure you clean all the bedding out and place down white paper towel so you can see if any come off of him after treatment. Best of luck; hope you end up not finding any. They are awful little buggers.
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Old 05-13-10, 12:45 PM   #3
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Re: sigh - mites

A quick search of the site using NIX as your key word will bring up many posts witht he full treatment etc. Mark
P.S. find a new vet
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Old 05-13-10, 12:49 PM   #4
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Re: sigh - mites

Thanks for the info, Kimberly - I did some reading and have been looking for the best treatment option and honestly, the Provent-A-Mite treatment scares the crap out of me (not only for our snakes safety but we have a cockatiel and I don't need her dying). Should we find these nasty little buggers how often do we need to re-treat the tank/snake and how long before we could replace his aspen? He's very fond of burrowing...
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Old 05-13-10, 01:03 PM   #5
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Re: sigh - mites

P.A.M. & NIX have the EXACT SAME active ingredient & both if used accordingly are safe for your snake. Not sure about your bird though???
Best be doing some more research or better yet move the snake to an entirely different area of the house away from the bird to do the treatments, Mark

http://www.albertareptilesociety.org/caresheets/nix.pdf

Nix Treatment for Snake Mites
by Nathan Curtis
Snake Mites
Mites are ectoparasites that subsist on blood. They are host-specific, which means that they only feed on one type of animal. Snake mites will not affect lizards, nor will they affect humans or other household pets like cats and dogs.
Mites can be identified as tiny black dots, much like a speck of dirt. However, unlike dirt, mites MOVE and will burst with a small red smear when squished against a hard surface (the remnants of their last meal). Mites can often be spotted crawling around a snake’s back or head area and on cage walls. For every mite you can see on your snake, there are likely dozens more that aren’t visible, that are hidden while feeding under your snake’s scales. These resilient parasites are commonly known as the “plague of snake keepers”. Really, with sound treatment and quarantine practices, this shouldn’t be the case.
Snake mites have been known to transfer disease in snakes, much like mosquitoes can with humans (malaria) and with dogs (heartworm). If unchecked, mites on just one snake in one terrarium can multiply geometrically and establish themselves in an entire collection of several terrariums and dozens of snakes in a matter of a week or two. This is a problem that is unique to snakes in captivity. Wild snakes are able to keep these parasites in check through shedding their skin and leaving most mites behind. On the other hand, captive snakes are forced in close quarters with their shed skin and mites, thereby facilitation reinfestation.
Mites will eventually overrun a snake in captivity to the point that their host becomes irritated, mildly anemic and therefore lethargic. Infested snakes are often found to soak for extended periods in water in a vain effort to drown the mites on its body, only to be reinfested once it emerges. Snakes in this situation will seldom eat, or even refuse to eat altogether, due to stress and discomfort.
Why Nix?
Nix was designed to treat human head lice and their nits (eggs). The one characteristic that separates the Nix method for treating snake mites from other mite remedies is its effectiveness at killing live mites AND mite eggs. All other mite remedies to my knowledge do not destroy mite eggs. As such, I have found the Nix method to be extremely effective at eradicating serious mite infestations. I even know of a pet store manager who sells several commercially produced mite remedies, yet uses the Nix method on imported snakes arriving at his store. Another pro to using Nix is economics. Around $12 will produce 4 litres of solution – much more than the largest private collection will ever require.
There exists a popular reptile care site on the Internet that discusses the toxicity of Nix, but in the two cases cited, Nix was spread over the infested snakes in full concentration. Common sense should dictate that reptiles and amphibians coming in direct contact with any fully concentrated chemical that does not occur in their natural environment would yield deleterious, if not downright fatal, results. The use of Nix discussed below involves a diluted solution (1 part Nix to 68 parts water) that has never produced adverse reactions in any python or boa in my collection over the course of 6 years. In fact, some snakes in my collection are proactively treated every 6 months as they make appearances at semi-annual reptile shows and I am not willing to risk the chance of mites from other exhibitors making their way into my collection. Even routine treatments on these boas and pythons over the course of several years have yet to result in any negative effects.
2
Materials
• Spray bottle. Preferably one that has never been used, or at the very least, one that has never contained harsh chemicals and has been thoroughly rinsed.
• 56 g (59 ml) bottle of Nix. I have only ever found this one particular size of Nix, which can be sourced at most drug stores and some pharmacy sections of grocery stores for anywhere from $6-$12.
• 4L (1 Gallon) jug of distilled water. Distilled water should be used to extend the shelf life of the solution. With distilled water, the solution’s effectiveness is expected to last up to 12 months as long as the solution is stored at room temperature and in a covered box (light breaks down the active ingredient found in Nix). Although, with one treatment and sound quarantine practices, the first treatment should be all that is necessary.
Creating the Nix Solution
• Pour the Nix cream into the 4L jug of distilled water. Nix is a fairly thick cream substance, so it may take a couple minutes to transfer as much of the cream into the jug of distilled water as possible.
• Replace the cap on the jug of distilled water and shake until the Nix cream is evenly distributed throughout the water. Again, this may take a few minutes due to the thick consistency of Nix.
• Pour the Nix solution into a spray bottle.
Eradicating Snake Mites
• If snake mites are only found on one snake or only in one snake enclosure, it is wise to conclude that mites have infested ALL snakes and their enclosures that are contained within the same room. Mites may have also transferred to snakes housed in another room by “hitchhiking on your hands or clothes. Therefore, absolutely all snakes and their terrariums should be treated to ensure 100% effectiveness.
• First, remove the snake from the enclosure and place in a Rubbermaid container. Spray the snake liberally with the Nix solution. Do not avoid spraying this solution on their head, eyes and heat pits – in fact, this is where mites commonly hide so spraying the head area is essential.
• Remove all substrate from the terrarium and throw away. Do not leave the garbage bag containing this old substrate anywhere in the house.
• Spray the entire enclosure, inside and out, including all cage furniture (branches, hide boxes, water bowl, etc.) and glass viewing area. Make sure that all corners and crevices are well covered with Nix solution, as this is where mites and their eggs are often hiding. Even spray the outside back of the cage and a 2-foot perimeter around the cage on the floor. The Nix residue that forms after drying is thought to even be effective at killing mites hiding out elsewhere in the room that may attempt to re-enter the snake cage.
• Replace the substrate with paper, preferably paper towel, as it is easy to spot mites on this. It is essential to use paper until you are absolutely certain that full eradication has been accomplished. I suggest waiting 3 weeks after the last live mite is spotted before using non-paper substrate.
• Remove water bowl from cage and replace, filled with water, 24 hours later. This ensures that the Nix solution is not washed off the snake by soaking in the water bowl before the active ingredient has had a chance to destroy all mites hiding under its scales.
• Return the snake to its enclosure and spray it, the cage, furniture and paper one more time.
• When the snake defecates during treatment, remove the paper and clean the messed area as usual, but be sure to re-spray the cleaned area and new paper with Nix solution.
• Repeat in 5-7 days twice, for a total of 3 treatments. With all likelihood, the last live mite will perish within a few hours of the first treatment, but repeating treatment is good practice in case the outbreak is severe and mites are able to re-enter cages.
3
Preventative Maintenance
Any snake entering a collection should be quarantined for 2-3 months, ideally in a completely separate room from where other snakes are housed, but at the very least in a separate cage. It should be assumed that any new snake has mites, regardless of how well respected the previous owner or pet store is. I have personally been let down on several occasions by leading breeders in our hobby, and from personal friends. It is my experience that employing the “better safe than sorry” approach is of paramount importance in ensuring mite breakouts never occur.
Given the above assumption new acquisitions, in addition to their cage and cage furniture, should be treated with Nix solution 3 times (one full treatment every 5-7 days). Same should hold true when a snake enters your colony for a breeding loan, even if it is your own specimen that was lent out and is returning. As previously mentioned, it is also wise to treat snakes that attend shows, where other exhibitors and spectators may have mite infestations. With the large number of people that handle your animals, or even just touch the enclosure in which your snakes are housed, the chance that a mite is hitchhiking on at least one of these snake enthusiasts at the show is good. Don’t become complacent and cut corners in this area, or you may find yourself right back where you started.
Cage furniture and substrate purchased at pet stores can also serve as mite vectors and should be treated with caution. Mite-free substrate can be purchased from pet stores that do not carry reptiles, from a livestock feed stores, or from landscape centres. Newly purchased cage furniture should be sprayed liberally with Nix solution. Highly porous cage furniture (wood hide boxes, branches, etc.) should be soaked in a 10% bleach solution for a day, then rinsed thoroughly, sprayed with Nix solution, and allowed to dry for a week.
Thanks…
I would like to give thanks to Giovanni and Paula Fagioli at the Bean Farm, a reptile dry goods mail order business in Washington State, for enlightening me to the Nix snake mite treatment. When I frantically contacted them several years ago, Giovanni suggested that I not purchase any of the commercially produced mite remedies that they stock, but to go out and buy a bottle of Nix and jug of distilled water locally. They had used this method with outstanding results for a number of years back then and even mentioned that Roger J. Klingenberg -- D.V.M. and author of Understanding Reptile Parasites (1993. Advanced Vivarium Systems, California.) -- was compiling clinical results of the Nix treatment for mention in a follow up to his invaluable publication.
Helping someone out while sacrificing one’s profits, as did the Bean Farm, says a lot about one’s business practices.
The Bean Farm can be reached via:
• Website at - The Bean Farm
• E-mail at beanfarm@accessone.com
• Phone at (425) 861-7964
• Fax at (425) 333-4205
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Old 05-17-10, 03:41 PM   #6
stlphotogal
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Re: sigh - mites

UPDATE: We did our first NIX treatment on Thursday and there were little black dots on the paper towels the next morning and our little guy seems to be doing MUCH better (no more hanging out in the water bowl and is quite a bit more active). I'm going to do another treatment tomorrow night but things seem to be on the right track. Thanks so much for your help!
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Old 05-18-10, 06:33 AM   #7
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Re: sigh - mites

i would recomend you use provent a mite.this is my personal choice and imo a very effective treatment.ive only ever had to treat the mite infested snake 0nce and had 100% success rate.ive never used nix but the thought of having to treat over and over again to get rid of a mite outbreak just doesnt make sense to me.not when i can use provent a mite once and thats it dealt with.imo this is less stressfull on the snake.it only has to be put in a pillow case for 2 hours until the fumes have settled then pop the snake back in its tank and its done.you can re treat the tank 30 days later but i have never ever had to as it always works first time for me.as gonesnakee said its all the same chemicals in most mite treatments.but at least provemt a mite is made and tested for use on reptiles.its quite expensive but a can goes a long way.

re your bird.provent a mite fumes dissapate in 2 hours leaving it safe for the snake to go back in its tank.so i'm pressuming after 2 hours it would be safe to put your bird back in the room.even if you kept the bird out the room over night for that extra peace of mind.
cheers shaun
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Old 05-18-10, 10:48 AM   #8
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Re: sigh - mites

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunyboy View Post
i would recomend you use provent a mite.this is my personal choice and imo a very effective treatment.ive only ever had to treat the mite infested snake 0nce and had 100% success rate.ive never used nix but the thought of having to treat over and over again to get rid of a mite outbreak just doesnt make sense to me.not when i can use provent a mite once and thats it dealt with.imo this is less stressfull on the snake.it only has to be put in a pillow case for 2 hours until the fumes have settled then pop the snake back in its tank and its done.you can re treat the tank 30 days later but i have never ever had to as it always works first time for me.as gonesnakee said its all the same chemicals in most mite treatments.but at least provemt a mite is made and tested for use on reptiles.its quite expensive but a can goes a long way.

re your bird.provent a mite fumes dissapate in 2 hours leaving it safe for the snake to go back in its tank.so i'm pressuming after 2 hours it would be safe to put your bird back in the room.even if you kept the bird out the room over night for that extra peace of mind.
cheers shaun
As stated its the smae treatment, ones an aerosol that is targeted specifically at reptile owners thus more expensive & harder to aquire the other a product that is readily available at any pharmacy & is far cheaper that just has to be mixed into a diluted form & a spray bottle used as its a liquid.
The reason why a followup is suggested is too ensure that everything was completely wiped out the first treatment.
Both usually work the first time round, however all it takes is for one gravid mite or one batch of eggs to be missed that could be anywhere in the entire room & next thing you know there is another full blown outbreak going on.
The 2nd treatment should be done with either product to ensure that anything that may have hatched out that was orginally missed is also eradicated.
Keep in mids that an adult mite can crawl like 8ft an hour & once full they don't remain with the host anymore.
Being host specific if they are anywhere remotely near the snake(s) thye will find them to feed on again.
Like I say they are pretty much same/same but of course anyone selling "reptile specific" stuff will tell you its "better" thus their justification to sell pretty much the same product for more money.
Just like most "reptile specific" or any "pet specific" product can be bought anywhere else other than a petstore etc. cheaper.
Examples plastic plants, water bowls, hides, moss, shavings that have other uses other than for pets can ALL be purchased cheaper elsewhere than the petstores.
Most petstores etc. play on peoples ideals of wanting whats best for their pets (loved ones) so they cahrge more for pretty much the exact smae products that are available cheaper elsewhere other than a petstore Cheers Mark
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Old 05-18-10, 10:57 AM   #9
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Re: sigh - mites

i hear what your saying mate.i get my silk plants from a shop that has nothing to do with reptiles.i cut and treat my own branches etc.my personal prefference with mites just happens to be prevent a mite.double sided sticky tape is good for catching the mites as they roam around but its not infalable.maybe ive just been lucky as these are just my own personal experiences with provent a mite.(i'm beginning to sound like a bloody prevent a mite sales man,haha).imo if something works and doesnt harm the snake then its all good.
cheers shaun
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Old 05-18-10, 11:16 AM   #10
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Re: sigh - mites

Yeah the key thing is it is hard to find at times.
Here in Canada its not a regularily carried product in ANY stores & usually has to be ordered in from the US etc.
Thus why NIX rules as it can be bought literally anywhere here.
Petstores always have stuff higher priced than non petstores of course as well, dollar stores are a herpers best friend, Mark
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Old 05-18-10, 11:38 AM   #11
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Re: sigh - mites

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonesnakee View Post
dollar stores are a herpers best friend, Mark
i hear you on that one lol
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