Feeding Live/FT

agentcooper · 08-15-09, 02:16 PM

I have had my BP now for three weeks. The first week she ate a FT hopper within fifteen minutes of being offered. The next time I fed she did not take the FT hopper for a while but finally ate it. The third time (a few days ago) she did not take it and when we went to grab her out of the tupperware feeding container she struck at us. So we went to the shop we got her at and they suggested using live. She took it in less than a minute and ate it like she was starving. I would like to feed her FT but live seems to be working well.

Smilts · 08-15-09, 02:50 PM

I had a BP awhile back sometimes he would eat FT and sometimes he wouldnt I never knew why.....

Chu'Wuti · 08-16-09, 01:03 AM

You might find that she feeds better if you leave her in her normal enclosure rather than placing her in a feeding container. That offers other advantages as well:

You don't have to handle her during a feeding event, which will reduce
1-undesirable striking,
2-the likelihood of regurgitation when you handle her to move her back into her normal enclosure after feeding, and
3-the likelihood of increasing her stress and thus decreasing the likelihood she'll take the prey.

I, too, used to feed my BP in a feeding container per pet store people's advice. I sought advice here when he began refusing to eat, which can occur for many reasons, including stress. I began feeding him in his enclosure.

As I also handle him in between feedings to weigh him and clean his enclosure, I have no trouble with undesirable striking at all. He knows the difference between feeding time and handling time.

In addition, what size was the live prey? The F/T hopper is likely to be too small for your BP. She should be eating a prey item that is about 10% of her body weight, and she should be switched to rats quite soon if you can, if for no other reason than the sake of your wallet. In addition, many people believe that rats are more nutritious for BPs than are mice, though it's debatable due to insufficient information.

Good luck.

agentcooper · 08-16-09, 10:28 AM

I'm pretty sure she is under a year old. Pretty small anyway. The store that I got her from was feeding her hoppers and I've only had to feed her three times so far. I have asked about rats as I have read that they are better, but they tell me the rats are still too big for her. I am going to try to keep her on live for a while. I think she enjoys the kill. I know I do. I am a little worried about her getting scratched or bitten but she seemed to handle the mouse pretty well. I have been struggling on whether or not to just feed her in her enclosure. I might give it a try.

citysnakes · 08-17-09, 01:54 PM

if you would prefer to feed f/t to your snake for its entire life then stop feeding live now and continue to offer f/t. you'll have less feeding issues later on when you eventually decide now is the time to offer only f/t.

edit: rat fuzzies or pups should be a perfect size for your ball python. if youre eventually going to switch over to rats then try to find a store that sells frozen rats in these sizes and offer them now.

agentcooper · 08-17-09, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citysnakes.com

if you would prefer to feed f/t to your snake for its entire life then stop feeding live now and continue to offer f/t. you'll have less feeding issues later on when you eventually decide now is the time to offer only f/t.

edit: rat fuzzies or pups should be a perfect size for your ball python. if youre eventually going to switch over to rats then try to find a store that sells frozen rats in these sizes and offer them now.

I was actually looking around for rats today. I am unsure whether to keep her on live or try to feed her FT again. Whichever it is I want to get her on rats. The stores around me (London, Ont) don't carry smaller size rats, and recommend feeding adult mice before switching to rats. I don't agree with that but don't want to argue there point either. So, I've just stuck with hopper mice for the time being.

I'm moving to Peterborough at the end of this month and have been looking around for a place to get feeders there. I found a place called Animalia but the phone number from thier website is no good. Nothing on Kijiji either. Frozen would be a lot more convenient but I feel like she wants live. I need to start reading again on feeding.

Will0W783 · 08-17-09, 05:15 PM

Her instincts tell her that live rodents are food; from what I understand f/t doesn't necessarily spark that instinct. Snakes must be taught that f/t items are food, that is why they don't take them right away all the time and why you have to work to get them on f/t. There is no reason why you should continue to feed your snake live IMO. The younger the snake is when you start it on f/t the more success you'll have, the easier it will be to get it started, and the less risk there is of your snake being seriously injured by a prey item. Have you ever looked at a rat's teeth? They are quite strong- they can chew through wood, plastic, and bone. Hence the worry for us. A rodent bite can get infected, cost you tons of money in vet bills and lots of time medicating, and even result in the death of your snake. Don't take the chance- sure it is neat to watch them hunt and kill, but you need to put your snake's best interests above your own. Sorry if I sound harsh, but I've seen and heard too much about snakes getting horrendous wounds and being killed by prey items. If you can't bring yourself to do f/t or can't get the snake to take it, make sure you are always in the room watching carefully the entire time a live prey item is in the cage with your snake. NEVER leave a rodent unattended with your snake.

agentcooper · 08-17-09, 07:54 PM

That's the only reason I want to feed ft. Safety. Next week I'll try it again.

What do you do if the mouse/rat attacks the snake? I'm not sure what you would do, even if you could react fast enough. When Nyoka was in with the mouse she grabbed it by the neck with her mouth and wrapped around the body. The mouse was kicking its back legs while being suffocated, and Nyoka used her tail to stop the legs from moving. The whole time she was holding on to the mouses throat. I don't want to be a pain and seem like I'm not taking good advice, I just want to know as much as possible.

People who work at pet stores always have such different opinions. I was not even thinking to go live till a guy at a shop said "if you want to work to get a bp to feed ft mice more power to you, but live works much better." I was just worried that she wasn't eating and seemed to have a crazed look about her. Since she took it so fast I figured she wants it that way. She had plenty of time with ft and just wouldn't. She has had ft twice though so I know she will. Maybe I'll try using feeding tonges and putting on a puppet show.

Will0W783 · 08-18-09, 07:44 AM

The tongs are a great idea. I use them for all my snakes. I would never hold the prey item myself as my hand could get tagged by accident. Pythons have heat-sensing labial pits and locate prey better with these than by eyesight so if you're holding a f/t prey and your hand is warmer than the prey item there's a good chance your hand will get bitten, and that will be a feeding bite, not a quick nip, let go. I have a pair of very long hemostats that I use; I find those to be better than the tweezer-type tongs, as they grip better.

agentcooper · 08-18-09, 09:08 AM

All I have been doing so far with thawed is putting them both in a tupperware container. Usually the mouse first then I put her in and leave her with it. I know that she knows it's there because she will move towards it and smell (???) it. In a creepy sort of way she just plays with it but doesn't eat.

BruinsBeard · 08-18-09, 09:43 AM

Are you warming the mouse/rat before offering it too your snake? Maybe try putting the snake in the container first and then, using tongs/hemostats or whatever, to offer the warm prey. Hold it in front of her and move it around a little before placing it down.

Will0W783 · 08-18-09, 10:25 AM

Definitely make sure the prey item is warm- it should feel warm to your touch. The best way I've found is to boil water and pour it into a big bowl. Let it sit for a minute or two, then place the frozen mice/rats in it and let them thaw and get warm. Remember that the vision and heat sense work together for pythons, and they won't eat an item that doesn't register as warm enough to be alive. Also, dangling it with tongs and moving it around as though it were still alive definitely is helpful, if not necessary. I have snakes that would never touch a f/t rodent left lying on the floor of their cage, but when teased with it a bit snarf it up readily.

agentcooper · 08-18-09, 11:36 AM

That might have been the problem....(not warm enough). Now that I think of it probably the most likely thing. When I first got her I was just about to move and had no A/C. Now she is staying at a temporary place for a few weeks that has A/C. I have just been leaving it out and once it is thawed I offer it. I have one more in the freezer. This weekend I'll give it a try. Thanks so much.
Shawn

Will0W783 · 08-18-09, 12:03 PM

No problem. Good luck Shawn!

citysnakes · 08-18-09, 01:29 PM

shawn, i dont understand the reasoning behind waiting until your bp is feeding on adult mice to switch to rats as i dont really agree that feeding "live works much better".

im not against feeding live but i do not agree that it is necessarily better than feeding f/t. as a keeper you need to decide how you are going to feed your snake.

some advice that may help you in successfully feeding f/t to your snake, offer warm f/t prey at night, inside the snakes enclosure with feeding tongs. dont just drop it on the floor, shake it a round a little to keep the snake interested but dont force it in the snakes direction too much.

read up a bit on ball pythons and you wont have to be so confused by what multiple pet store employees advise.