Once easy-to-feed BP on a feeding strike?

[LadyParvati]

OK, everyone, I now have to eat my words about my easy-to-feed BP! He's quit eating. Will you please share the benefit of your experience with me?

This BP is about 7-8 months old. I purchased him (?) in June (June 21); he had been fed only mice pinkies. I upgraded him to hoppers as of June 23. On June 28, he weighed 133 grams and was about 16" long. By October (with encouragement from posters here), I had upgraded him to rat pups (35 grams each), and he took the rats readily the first two times I offered them.

On Nov. 2, he shed. The shed is a little over 29" long. Nov. 3, he ate one rat pup and one hopper mouse (refused a second rat pup). On November 10, he weighed 305 grams.

However, since Nov. 3, he has refused to eat. :S Today, he weighs 287 gms.

I've watched for behavioral signals as an indication of hunger, such as hunting, hanging out over the water bowl (must be watching for some critter to come get a drink so he can drop on it, right?) and tried to offer F/T prey as soon as possible after noting these signs. Unfortunately, the result has only been that I have had to throw out quite a number of rats and mice.

I've tried both separately and together, and I've tried warming them together to mix their smells. He smells of them carefully but won't eat either.

I've tried _not_ taking him out to feed him (previously I had always followed the instructions I was given to take him out of his vivarium and put him in a feeding container for feeding, and he always ate immediately until three weeks ago).

I've tried using a feeding tongs (which I hadn't previously used, again without any problems).

I've tried leaving the prey in the vivarium with him for several hours.

Last night I tried again, reverting to all previous _successful_ feeding actions--i.e., take him out of the vivarium, put him in the feeding container, let him relax & start exploring, warm up the F/T prey, offer it without using the tongs. No success.

Several of you have suggested that a decrease in appetite is normal at this time of year (decreasing light hours and/or decreasing temperature leads to decrease in appetite). However, I've also been told that some snakes' appetites seem to _increase_ as the temp decreases . . . I'd be OK with the lack of appetite due to seasonal changes if it weren't for the fact that this is _not_ a full-grown BP, and he's losing weight.

I've been told that they eat less often as they get older. OK, but--a full month between meals seems excessive.

A couple of you guys have mentioned slitting the skull of the F/T prey (yech, but I'll do it if it is necessary). How do you do that? Do you use a knife or scalpel or ?? How long a slit? How much brain do I need to expose?

As it has been nearly a month now, I'm a little concerned and would feel better with some input from more experienced BP keepers. Thanks, everyone!

[LadyParvati]

Added info for the BP on feeding strike:

I tried increasing the night-time temps by leaving on a red light, because I was worried that the temp in the vivarium was dropping too low at night. That dries things out, but I've increased humidifying measures to maintain 70% humidity or a bit more. He always has a big bowl of water. Currently, during the daytime, there is a cool zone (70-75 deg. F), warm zone (80-85 deg. F where there's an undertank heat pad), and hot zone (87-95 deg. F range as the overhead ceramic heat lamp cycles on & off--controlled by a thermostat). Have a Zilla power center with separate day & night controls for the separate digital thermostat/regulators with remote temperature probes set inside the vivarium where he spends most of his time. Night & day temps differ no more than 10 deg. F according to the care sheets. The heat pad doesn't drop below 80 deg at night, and the hot zone doesn't drop below 85.

He has two hides, one in the warm zone over the heat mat which he uses occasionally, and the other under the ceramic heat lamp. He uses the latter most often. I've put damp sphagnum moss in both for added humidity, and since I began putting in the moss, he's not bathing/soaking as much, so he apparently likes the extra humidity.

Ask if more info would be useful.

[Aaron_S]

Well I don't think he's really losing weight Sandy. If he weighed 305 grams and you fed him a rat pup (which you said weighed 35 grams) and a hopper mouse, the loss of 18 grams is probably from his waste.

Don't worry about things. I do believe your entire enclosure may be a little too hot for the little bugger. I think you need another hide in the cool zone, if you have one. If I understand correctly you have a heat pad on one side, and a ceramic heat emitter on the other side?

I also believe that he's just gone off food for the season. Some snakes just do it. No matter there age. It's natural for them so I wouldn't sweat it.

[mykee]

Sandy, you are SO over-worrying something that is not to be worried about. The only suggestion other than this being natural and often occuring, is that he was fed too much too young (35g rat for a 140g snake? am I reading correctly here?) I don't feed my 500g babies rats that are 35g. It's possible that he ate too much and grew too large too fast and this is his way of self-regulating.
Whatever the reason, don't sweat the small stuff. Yes, this is small stuff....

[LadyParvati]

Wow, this is TOO funny! Michael, on another forum, I was _blasted_ for 1) him not growing fast enough/shedding often enough (like once a month or less) and 2) not feeding this BP larger prey and "encouraged" (ordered?) to get him onto rats--at least 50g--ASAP. Even here, some people encouraged larger prey. So--being of a somewhat cautious nature--I moved him up to the smaller size. However, by the time I offered the 35 gm rat pup, the BP weighed over 270 gms.

Aaron, the enclosure is a 55-gallon aquarium with one end cool, middle warm, other end hot zone. I wondered if things were getting _too_ warm, so the past two nights I've left the red lights off. Glad to have some confirmation that leaving the lights off is probably best. The under-tank heat mat is set to 85 deg (that's the middle) & on top of the moss it's always 80deg, so I figure he can go get warm there if he gets too cold elsewhere, or he can get up on his branch to bask under the heat lamp where it's warmer.

Michael, your mention of not feeding your 500 gm babies rats of 35 gm makes me wonder--should I go back to smaller prey? This guy was able to swallow the 35 gm rat pups no problem, albeit slower than swallowing the mice. He had previously eaten a total of 50 gm of mice at one feeding. Also, if you're feeding smaller prey, are you feeding rats or mice? I was told that I should be feeding rats already because he'd be too hard to switch from mice to rats if I waited any longer.

Guys, thanks so much!

[mykee]

Sandy, I can't speak for members on other forums, but I will say that they're all idiots. I prefer to stick with the 10% body weight rule when feeding (you haven't heard about it because it's my rule). I don't feed anything larger than 10% of their own body weight. (Different rules apply for anything over 3000g). I've been experimenting over the years with item size, and I found that 10% food item is optimal for retained weight and turn around time for poops and next feedings. Too many owners try to get the largest meal they can into their snakes cause I guess maybe it's the manly thing to do? I don't know. I find that if you feed smaller melas more consistently, you have better overall growth and less problems. Slow and steady always wins the race, unless you've entered a fast and wobbly race....

[LadyParvati]

I can't speak for members on other forums, but I will say that they're all idiots.

LOL!

I'm already wobbly enough on my own, thank you--think I'll go for slow & steady!

I get the idea is to pack it in & make 'em grow as fast as possible. So at 300 gm, this guy should be eating 30 gm snacks. Got it!

[Aaron_S]

I wouldn't say feeding the largest prey item possible is "the manly thing to do". It's the fastest way to get them to breeding size. I'm sure you've heard of the male ball pythons breeding at 9 months of age.

[LadyParvati]

Yes, I have.

Guys, I received a disturbing message from a poster on another forum that has me spooked, so I've changed to my bp's photo. He's grown since that photo, of course. Should've taken the hint from everyone else's photos--now my lack of Internet savvy is showing. Ah, well--live & learn.

The bp is hanging out on top of his stump right now, but I'm ignoring him. When do you guys think I should try feeding him again?

[mykee]

Sandy, too bad that was a GREAT pic....

"I'm sure you've heard of the male ball pythons breeding at 9 months of age. "

Aaron, I've had a six month old spider successfully breed 4 females and father me 21 eggs, and a 5 month old male clown breeding the ladies right now. Powerfeeding has nothing to do with it. Either they're ready, or they're not.

[LadyParvati]

Thank you for the compliment! Too much flattery will go to my head, though, so it's probably just as well the pic has been replaced! (And I should've been smarter, I think.)

Anyway, on to your young breeders . . .

Geez. You mean this BP could be ready to breed? Don't think I will, though--it would be better to invest in a couple of the fancier morphs, I think. Hmmm . . .

Here's our BP tonight, wrapped around my DH's arm:



He's looking a bit dull, you know? I think he must be getting ready to shed again.

[LadyParvati]

Oh--the reason the pic got changed is because the disturbing message included info that the person is tracking me online. Guess he'll read this now . . . sheesh.

[citysnakes]

hey Lady, if youre still looking for suggestions to help get your BP to eat then maybe try moving him into a smaller enclosure and aim for two temperature zones: the cool end at 80-82 and the warm end at 88-92 with no night drop. naturally the temp may drop a couple degrees but dont try to drop it purposely. also keeping him on one type of feeder may help in getting him to eat consistently for you and if you go by "Mykee's size rule" you should be fine with rodent sizes.

as was said earlier, one month is not too long and is really nothing to worry about but correcting a few husbandry issues may help your snake to become a consistent feeder again and reduce any future hunger strikes.

hope this helps!

[Aaron_S]

Indeed it was a fine picture. Too bad you have a stalker. Very creepy.I hope that doesn't get any worse!

Originally Posted by mykee

Aaron, I've had a six month old spider successfully breed 4 females and father me 21 eggs, and a 5 month old male clown breeding the ladies right now. Powerfeeding has nothing to do with it. Either they're ready, or they're not.

I stand corrected. Very incredible. Oh so you'll have het clowns?! Nice.

[mykee]

Aaron, I will almost certainly have het clowns as well as pastel het clowns for sale next year for sure. He's lovin' up a few super pastel ladies, so we're looking good over here...