Coccidia Load

Painted Desert · 05-09-05, 08:05 PM

Need help with this one. I understand coccidia in Beardies is a routine finding on fecals, but only becomes a problem when for whatever reason the coccidia load becomes too high. My vet reports coccidia 1-3 "per field" under high resolution.. my question is... is this a routine load for a 1yr old 136g beardie? She is generally unwell, with her 3rd eyelid extended 75% or greater all of the time. Eats reasonably well, but is hand fed due to inability to see her food. Lots of UV (Powersun), outdoor UV lately, drinking and generous fecals. Calcium, D3 and Herptivite are included in her diet.

Capital_Dragons · 05-09-05, 10:15 PM

In my experience, every beardie is different. Some seem to handle coccidia better than others. I do agree with your vet, assuming that by high resolution he/she means 40X magnification that 1 to 3 oocysts per field is a high number. I also agree that it sounds like your beardie is somehow unwell, just given that she only weighs 136 grams at 1 yr. That seems to be a little small for a 1 yr old beardie. Unfortunately, the treatment for coccidia (Sulfatrim) is extremely hard on beardies. For this reason, I will often try to bring the coccidia numbers down by other methods first before resorting to drugs. This means removing all sand, branches and anything else that can't be disinfected daily from the cage. I recommend replacing the sand with newspaper, reptile carpet or astroturf. Make sure you have a couple of pieces, so while one is disinfecting the other is in use. I fill a large rubbermaid with a 5% bleach solution and every night remove the carpet and rock from the enclosure and soak it in the bleach for 24 hrs. and put a new piece of reptile carpet and rock in the enclosure. Remove any excrement as soon as you see it.

Should you have to use the drug, be sure to keep your beardie well hydrated by giving her daily soaks in a bath.

I hope this helps and wish you all the best with helping your beardie recover.

Painted Desert · 05-10-05, 04:59 AM

Thanks. The vet didn't mention if it was a high load or not.. she simply did not know as it relates to beardies, and will always say so. Actually, she said..."put it out to the forums"

Yes, the beardie is on the small side... she would just be turning a year old now. I do not know the size of the parents...heck... could be small as well for all i know....

Yup, poop and scoop is always done soon as i see it. The Vet and I (sounds like a movie,eh?) have treated her for eye infection going on 2wks now, with little or no improvement. This is because she originally presented with eye discharge bilaterally. I took her off sand and moved her to Bran 2 wks ago as well due to allergy concerns (the sand had a vague perfume to it, despite being purchased from an excellent high end breeder). No difference to the eyes, but i love the Bran.

She soaks in the sink every 2nd day, that's routine. Drinks while she's in there as well. She is hand fed babyveggies out of the tank (on the table), since she simply won't eat them. Gave her fresh dandelions yesterday... that was a failure. She's getting lots of outside UV last 4 days...hasn't made a difference.

Can't seem to nail down her problem. I hear the reptile eye is slow to respond to antibiotic/anti-inflammatory... so i will continue the drops another 2 wks. Meanwhile, I shall consider the Sulfatrim. Opinions vary on the coccidia load findings. Thanks muchly.

Linda

Capital_Dragons · 05-10-05, 07:14 AM

Just an afterthought - if by high resolution you meant 10 X, I wouldn't consider 3 coccidia oocysts per field a high number. I just wanted to clarify. I have not come across the eye problem you mentioned before - could the lid be torn inside? Aside from that, I was thinking that maybe it was a drooping eye thing??? - which is often an indicator of Vit. B deficiency, which brewer's yeast added to the diet can usually remedy - but it does sound like this is more of an injury/infection thing.

Anyways, wish I could be more helpful

!

Greg West · 05-10-05, 08:29 AM

Could also be a piece of shed skin behind the eye. When I was buying a dragon from a breeder in the US she had that problem with 1 dragon I had picked. Not sure if that is what it is but it may help you. Not sure how they got it out, but it was in there for a while and it never recovered from it even after it was removed.

Greg West

Painted Desert · 05-10-05, 10:17 AM

Actually, it's both eyes, at the same time they started to weep, crusty discharge. I originally thought shed as well.. but it's not, they are clean as a whistle. "We" are 14 days through a combo antibiotic/anti-inflammatory eye drop.... gonna stay with it 2 more weeks. Here she is

Greg West · 05-10-05, 12:20 PM

Looks like a nice dragon. Hopefully you can figure it out and it gets better.

Greg

babysweet · 05-10-05, 06:13 PM

Her snout looks kinda short, doesn't it? Or maybe her forehead is swollen... am I seeing things?

Also, I've heard tons about using bran... what kind of bran? Like kelloggs all-bran?

What are you feeding her? How long have you had her?

Have you tested her for anything else?

Kim

Greg West · 05-10-05, 06:42 PM

I would say its due to the swollen eyes. I used wheat bran. You buy it at a UFA type store, or a place where you would buy farm animal food like horses. Usually a 25kg bag is $10-$15.00

Greg West

Painted Desert · 05-10-05, 07:27 PM

It's a bit of an odd pic... here is another, better in proportion. I have info now on flagyl dose and amounts... may as well eliminate that concern (if it even is one..) 'cause the next series of steps will be expensive and invasive. *sigh* What ever happened to simple eye infections? I love the Bran, simply love it. But, I think it only works for some people. Misting is out, veggie mess is out, dirty tanks (fecals) are a nono. Clean and dry. Period.
Well maybe the photo isn't muuch difffferent.

Capital_Dragons · 05-11-05, 12:43 AM

What a sweet little dragon! Very nice colour!

I just wanted to ask - is flagyl effective in treating coccidia protozoans? Although I'm aware it is effective for treating some protozoans, I haven't heard it was effective for coccidia??? I have always been told that sulfadimethoxine was the drug of choice for coccidial infections.........

If I'm way off base here, let me know - have others used flagyl effectively in treating coccidia?????

tHeGiNo · 05-11-05, 06:29 AM

Hey Linda, sorry to hear all of this trouble you are going through, I sure hope it resolves itself quickly.

Anyhow, by the sounds of it you have scrapped the bran and moved to a substrate-free enclosure. That is ideal. I would remove all cage decorations and unnecessary ornaments, and use disposable lids as a water bowl. Once finished with it, it can be discarded outside of the house to avoid spreading the coccidia. Feed a few insects at a time only - any uneaten insects that have been in the cage are to be treated as infections and discarded appropriately. As suggested, feces is to be cleaned up immediately and the cage should be disinfected. What are you using to clean your cages?

If you don't mind me asking, what antibiotics did your veterinarian prescribe? As for sulfadimethoxine, I have had to use it a few times now and have had great success. The dragons are to be kept at optimal hydration, with daily baths and access to water at all times. Flagyl is not effective in attacking coccidia.

Good luck! I will PM you later to try and help out a bit more.

Painted Desert · 05-11-05, 11:47 AM

I put this "problem" post out on several forums... Dr Allan DVM who is the on staff rep vet for Alex Hue in Michigan replied as follows:
One published lizard dose for flagyl is 150mg/kg (0.15mg/gram of body weight) orally with a repeat dose in 14 days. I would do that and if a repeat fecal shows a significant number of coccidia after the two treatments, go with albon (sulfadimethoxine) at a dose of 0.09mg/gram on day one with daily repeat doses of 0.045mg/gram for 4 more consecutive days.

Thus, i am starting with the Flagyl. I here it's a little easier on them than the Sulfadimethoxine. He also commented that the findings of 1-3 coccidia per high power field is not considered a high count.... it's just that i'm running out of options

She is hand fed, never any left over insects. The eye antibiotic/anti-inflammatory is Pentasone. The fecal was an after thought... she really did/does present as an eye infection....as a matter of fact, she's put on 20g in the last 2 months.

labomb2 · 06-03-05, 04:10 AM

any updates on how this gal is doing?

Painted Desert · 06-03-05, 05:16 AM

Can't give you a prognosis just yet

Elected not to treat the coccidia, as no one in particular was overly stressed by the count. Discontinued the eye drops after a full month. Funny you should ask today, after several additional conversations with Dr Alan, my vet and I started her on injectable Baytril as a trial. The injections are every 2nd day...so, "we'll" do a total of 3 and reassess. My vet is good enough to allow me to do them at home. In the meantime, I’ve booked OR time for next Wednesday. Slip her under anesthetic and get a look inside her mouth for trouble. Get an X-ray of her head for the sake of getting one, and draw bloodwork to go to Guelph. May or may not poke around with a needle for a "spot" to aspirate.... Dr Alan leans towards abscess... but I can't locate a spot that could be the source of trouble. The swelling in even and diffuse over her head.

She has continued to eat, and I note the beginnings of a shed on her tail. Course, now that she's had Baytril... ahhh.. I think the eating stops here!