A Few Questions (Ball Pythons & Rats)

greenman1867 · 02-28-05, 01:37 PM

Hello, I have a couple questions I would really appreciate some guidance on.

Okay, I have 2 Rat Colonies (and want to keep it like that) so here was my plan for a rack system.

-2 Colonies in their Rat Condos with hot tubs, nice views, a butler and maid. They are okay its the offspring I am thinking of;

I was thinking about a 6 rack system;

-2 for ton's o little rats, weaned but not breeding (LOL how long do I have before they are breeding?)
-1 for breeding sized males and 1 for breeding sized females
- And 2 for males I am growing to jumbo sized for my Boas.

Does this make sense?
Next Question.......

What’s about the biggest rat (grams) my Ball Pythons will take? So I know when to, um you know :grab:

Also will males fight (normally) if there are no females in the same rack but are in the same area? Like smelling distance? I would like to put Med/Small Rats in with the bigger ones as I grow them up to Boa Munching Size.

Thanks,

Shawn

sapphire_moon · 02-28-05, 01:54 PM

they start breeding when they are weaned

about 5 wks, alot of people take them out at 4 wks though, you can't seperate them from their mother before that, as they aren't weaned.

you want to be carefull about how many males you can keep in a small tub, though males can live together they have to have a bit of space. You can keep 2 tubs of ones you are bringing up to breeding size and ones you are bringing up as jumbo's.

Though if you are only keeping 2 colonies then you wouldn't need anymore males for a while (atleast 6 months-1yr)

not sure about that, I'm not to good with grams and such. But the biggest size is when the rat is about the same size around or a bit bigger than the biggest part of your ball. And since we don't know how big that is, then we really couldn't tell anyways. lol

sure, you could even keep them side by side. lol Many pet owners keep male cages and female cages pretty close together.

greenman1867 · 02-28-05, 02:11 PM

Thank you

mykee · 02-28-05, 04:16 PM

I've NEVER seen a 5 week old rat breed, and am fairly sure that any attempts to breed at that age would be fruitless. For my colonies, I could care less how old the rats are, once they reach 250g I breed them. In my opinion, why breed your rats when they are underage and more importantly undersized, it's similar to breeding an 800g female ball. Let them grow up and get some fat storage going. It's not easy work to pop out 12-20 babies every 3-4 weeks.
Next; if males are raised up together (siblings) they will not fight if they are left together, EVEN if there are females present.
Lastly, I like to keep my balls eating smaller meals more often rather than big meals. I like to feed my balls up to about 700g a rat that is equivalent to around 10-15% of their body weight. A 500g ball would get a 50-75g rat. With my adults, I also like to stay on the smaller side with my meals, roughly 10% of their size. For a 3000g ball, I would feed a 300g rat. You'll hear plenty of opinions on this one so it's best to go with what works best for you. I will tell you however, I've noticed that MY balls eat rather consistently (every 5-7 days) when fed smaller meals as opposed to larger ones. Good luck.

kpugh · 02-28-05, 04:31 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mykee
[B]I've NEVER seen a 5 week old rat breed, and am fairly sure that any attempts to breed at that age would be fruitless.

I have! Males will jump on anything they can right after they are weaned, and I've seen females stand and allow breeding at 5 weeks. Granted, the young females usually don't deliver, or if they do it's only a couple sickly babies. Of course, this should never be done on purpose, and the incidents reported above were the result of sorting/sexing errors in grow out enclosures. But it can, and does happen! I absolutely agree that females should be allowed to reach about 200g before breeding, but if they get too big and fat before their first litter you will likely have poor fertility or at the least smaller litters.

mykee · 02-28-05, 05:12 PM

I've kept literally THOUSANDS of weanling to 100g rats in holding bins for a few years now, and I have yet to see a single birth from an attempted copulation.
Also, any rat raised on a good quality lab diet and proper floor space, will never be "too fat to breed". I personally begin breeding my females between 200-300g.

CamHanna · 02-28-05, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Posted by Sapphire Moon
they start breeding when they are weaned about 5 wks, alot of people take them out at 4 wks though, you can't seperate them from their mother before that, as they aren't weaned.

My rats seem to wean around 3-4 weeks, usually closer to 3 weeks and 35 grams. I've never kept back breeding stock or raised a rat passed about 150 grams so I wouldn't know how long they take to mature.

Cam

Auskan · 02-28-05, 05:54 PM

Wow, those are tiny rats - 35g at 3 weeks? Mine weigh 35-40g at two weeks.

CamHanna · 02-28-05, 06:04 PM

Really? Do they wean at two weeks? Maybe I'll have to monitor the growth of my next litter more closely, but I THINK they are about 35g at three weeks.

Edit: Also, what temperature do you keep your rats at? I have mine at about 55F and wonder if that slows them down. And how many rats do you raise in your litters? I've experimented with culling litters to 8 or so and that speeds growth but to keep production up I've been raising the whole litter (12-18).

Thanks,
Cam

Mark · 02-28-05, 06:42 PM

For myself I set up my breeder bins 1.5-1.7 when they are about 60g and let them grow up together until they start breeding. For myself I never remove the male as I see it to be pointless as for my own stock they don't bother the babies and adding/removing them just slows down production. As far as the growout bins go I just toss a bunch of rats together (up to 60 is short on space) and I rarely have problem (I have thousands of rats a year) and I've never had babies before. As far as temp go I usually aim for 60F myself. Please not that I breed rodents for snake foods and they are not pets so I breed for maximum prodcution.

Auskan · 02-28-05, 06:44 PM

No, no, I didn't mean they wean at 2 weeks - I just meant that's what they weigh at that age. My corns right now eat them when they are 40-60g (depending on the snake), so I usually take them around the three week mark.

Mine are also kept at around 55. I don't have a thermometer, but they live in my basement which is cooler than the rest of the house (which is at 65).

I raise the whole litter also, as I have no need of smaller rats. I find there is enough variance in the size of the different rats in the litter that I can usually find rats the right size for the snake. Occasionally I get a runt that is only half the size of the others, so it is allowed to live for a little longer. Last week I killed off a 5-6 week old that was only 54g, but that was some time after its littermates had been digested! It was cute because it was so tiny but it was fully weaned and was up there with the grownups, eating grownup food.

sapphire_moon · 03-01-05, 02:23 AM

Well I have seen them have a successfull breeding at 5wks. Most males will get along, sibling or not! (I know many people that keep large cages with all male occupants, and most of them aren't siblings

)

also, at 3 wks old the mother STARTS to wean them, and they begin to eat solid foods, but they are NOT weaned yet.

kpugh · 03-01-05, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mykee
I've kept literally THOUSANDS of weanling to 100g rats in holding bins for a few years now, and I have yet to see a single birth from an attempted copulation.
Also, any rat raised on a good quality lab diet and proper floor space, will never be "too fat to breed". I personally begin breeding my females between 200-300g.

Well mykee,

I guess we should all defer to your obvious expertise. I too have breed thousands and thousands of rats - I did it commercially for several years - but my personal experiences are clearly not valid...

My point is that animals of all sorts perform differently under different conditions, and one person's experiences are no more "correct" than any others. I was just trying to share what I have seen happen...and my personal opinions...you really don't have any place saying what will 'never' happen...so much for sharing information...

sapphire_moon · 03-01-05, 12:45 PM

oh I missed that to fat to breed thing. I think the rat would have to be rolling around not to be able to breed, and even then, I dont think that would stop a male rat....lol...

ya, everyones expeirence is differnt. I may not have breed thousands up thousands of rats. But I have seen 5 wk old rats get pregnant.
I never continusly fed a "good quality lab block", and when I did my rats became skinny, rough coated, ill looking and reproduction dropped....
but as I said everyone's expierence is different. So everyones answer will be different.

Byron · 03-01-05, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sapphire_moon
oh I missed that to fat to breed thing. I think the rat would have to be rolling around not to be able to breed, and even then, I dont think that would stop a male rat....lol..

Note that it wasn’t that they couldn’t breed, only that if they get too big and fat before their first litter you will likely have poor fertility or at the least smaller litters.