Redfoots and Pyramiding...

[Linds]

Now everyone says that pyramiding is so bad, and a sign of poor husbandry and/or diet. However, from what I've observed, a little bit of pyramiding is perfectly natural. Just about every redfoot I've ever seen over 5 years old has had at least a small degree of pyramiding, in captive bred redfoots, WC imports, and all the pictures I've seen of them in the wild in books and magazines. Now I'm far from being an experienced tortoise person, but from where I'm standing now, a little bit of pyramiding is totally natural and nothing to frown on at all. Does anyone have any light to shed on this?

[Ron]

I don't know if it pyramiding is natural or not but I did see a pair of sub adult Red Foots that Henry sold at the last TARAS show that were as smooth as can be.

[snakers55]

Yeah, wild adults are completely smooth.

[Linds]

If wild adults are naturally completely smooth, why are all the ones I've seen in books and magazines, as well as imports, all somewhat pyramided?

[mudflats]

I have seen animals that have pyramiding like all hell and others very smooth. An i have come to the coclusion this is another one of those if your snake doesn't shed full it is unhealthy and something is wrong. Most red's i see have alittle bit of pyramiding and are very healthy, get vet exams twice a year, other are smooth and are in the same condition. I do not own any tortoises nor do i know much on them, but from observing friends that do and caring for them periodically i think this is all safe to say.

[HeatherRose]

This article has some really good information:

http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/wha...pyramiding.htm

[V.hb]

I've only seen torts kept improperly show signs of pyramiding. I'am actually flipping through a REPTILES magazine right now that's spotlighting torts, and none of them show these signs, cept the ones that are under "health issues"

[red bootz]

Hi all,

In nature, alot of species show pyramiding. In the genus Geochelone you can include red-foots, leopards, and star tortoises in this group. The tent tortoises of the genus psammobates are so named because the scutes on their carapace end in a peak. The tiny padloper tortoises of the genus Homopus also share this characteristic.
Now this is not to say that it is healthy. Just to say that they exist. There are a myriad of theories to explain this phenimenon. Diet, humidty, and exposure to Natural sunlight have all been addressed as factors.
I raised my two sub-adult red-foots on a diet of strictly fibrous vegetables and a little fruit. I have another one in my keep, raised by a well known gecko breeder that was also raised strictly on a vegetarian diet that is deemed "ideal" for tortoises. But they all show signs of pyramiding.
A few years ago I learned of a prepared tortoise diet from Mazuri that was being touted for its ability to produce smooth shelled tortoises. Since they started to consume the M stuff as part of their diet all of the new growth is smooth. You can actually see where the pyramided growth has stopped and the smooth growth began. I have two yearlings that have the M stuff as part of their diet and all of their growth is smooth. (You can see the pics in my gallery)
Now, we learn that that processed foods like the M-stuff has ingredients which, apparently, may be detrimental to the tortoise's well being. So it may be that a smooth tortoise is not necessarily a healthy tortoise and vice versa. All I can say is if Linds has found an all natural way to raise a smooth tortoise kudos.

Fun Stuff!

[Linds]

Heather,
Thanks for the link! I've actually read that one before. LOL... I think I've encountered just about everything you can find online in my quest for keeping torties properly.

Red Bootz,
I was thinking more along the lines of what you are saying (minus the mazuri stuff because I personally do not agree with the stuff). Now I wouldn't jump the gun on saying I found any way of raising smooth torties...lol He's still young (I think coming on 4 years), and he isn't really pyramided, nor is he as smooth as a wee hatchling either. I guess just seeing all these redfoots that have been raised 'by the book' often have a slight degree of pyramiding, as well as every fresh import I've ever seen, got me to thinking small degreees may be a bit more natural than we have been led to believe, or at the least, certainly nothing to frown down on.

Originally posted by V.hb
I've only seen torts kept improperly show signs of pyramiding. I'am actually flipping through a REPTILES magazine right now that's spotlighting torts, and none of them show these signs, cept the ones that are under "health issues"

Really? That's one of the magazines I recall seeing 'healthy' captive and wild redfoots with slight pyramiding. I'm not talking the extreme amounts you see that are always featured as examples of poor health, just what looks to be very mild cases or 'beginning' cases of it