Is it just me or are prices crashing on...

BoidKeeper · 10-10-04, 09:21 AM

...normal CBB Balls and Colombians. It seems to me just last year maybe two at most CBB normal balls were $150 and Colombians were $200. Now this year I'm seeing CBB balls for as low as $80! That is lower than the WC garbage in the pet shops. And Colombians as low as $125 sometimes as low as $100! I don't think a snake that can get that big (relatively speaking) should be that cheap.
So what is up with that? Are we really producing that many of each in Canada that the market has become flooded to the point that it has out reached the demand?
Will the Colombian be the Corn of the Boa world? I'm sorry but I just can't see myself selling Colombians and Rosy Boas for the same price.
Cheers,
Trevor

marisa · 10-10-04, 09:25 AM

"So what is up with that? Are we really producing that many of each in Canada that the market has become flooded to the point that it has out reached the demand?"

I think so. I have seen BCI for 80 bucks in classified ads. Not high qaulity ones. So people are breeding them just to breed them I guess, even if they are ugly specimens. And why would normal balls stay up there in price when no one likes them anymore? It's all about morphs morphs morphs. But I think balls are doing a bit better than BCI. For one it's a smaller snake and they are still in demand, and you are right, someone selling a snake that can get as big as a BCI for 100 or less, is scary.

I don't believe ANY snake should be under 100. Frankly, if you cannot afford THAT, get a pet rock.

Marisa

BoidKeeper · 10-10-04, 09:32 AM

Quote:

I don't believe ANY snake should be under 100. Frankly, if you cannot afford THAT, get a pet rock.

You said it! The only comment I've heard that was better than the was the time Jeff said, "When was the last time you saw a rescue Black Head?"
It's so true, the lower price animals are expendable apparently.
And another thing, just because you can breed it doesn't mean you should.
Cheers,
Trevor

Edwin · 10-10-04, 09:39 AM

I think its because a lot of people are breeding them to get new morphs or nicer coloration, and these are just the normals that they do not need. It is the same thing with corns too.

Kevin McRae · 10-10-04, 11:03 AM

My colombian was 90.00$, very good price but the breeder is very careful who he sells his snakes too.He turns down multiple people.....

I have seen lots of cbb baby ball pythons in pet shops for around 70.00$, but there much better quality from breeders...

Joe · 10-10-04, 11:38 AM

sell the snakes for what you feel they are worth... if it means holding onto an animal for a year to get it then do it... IMO, thats the best way, in the end it will sell...my 2 cents!

Stockwell · 10-10-04, 11:52 AM

Trev, you're lucky at that price!! LOL
I got out of breeding Balls because I couldn't even get 75 for them in the 80's, and that was when I was the only producer and before there were $6 Pit hatched Togo balls.(we call them CH now)
I think it's only a matter of time before everything gets cheaper as more and more people are captive producing and eventually the supply will meet and exceed demand.
The Togo CH balls,are still driving prices down on CB none morph stuff and if pet stores can get them for 8 to 10 bucks, they won't be buying CB's from breeders
I sold all my Regius in 91 and the guy that bought them, produced them and got $35 for babies, and I remember getting $40 for Leopard geckos that same year.
Now Regius still hadn't caught on back then and the stigma of them "not eating" took a decade to overcome. The big thing holding the price of of female Regius up now are people wanting them for morph production, especially for pastels
About boas... Boas used to be 100 bucks to 150.
I had boas in the early 80's and never paid more then 150 for them.
In the US now, Dumerils are sometimes sold for less than normal columbian boas, and I've heard reports of Dums for 75 and columbians for 100.
Actually I think logically Rosy boas should cost much more than boa constictors, because they only have 4 babies, less than Ball Pythons, and the low rate of production is what is holding their prices up.

AtlanticReptile · 10-10-04, 11:52 AM

you will definetly get a higher quality animal from a breeder and 99.9% of the time will know a lot more about the animal than anyone at a pet store ever will. As far as columbians and balls being under priced i totally agree with Trevor and Marisa they should not be sold for under 100 dollars, they are too nice of an animal and are worth way more than what some are sold for. Also selling columbians for under 100 dollars gives younger and more inexperienced keepers a chance to purchase them. Someone who may not be responsible enough to keep a large snake like a columbian may do somthing stupid, thus giving some people who don't understand snakes as much, more of a reason to dislike them and give them more of a bad name than they already have. Just think of a kid that is 14 purchasing a burmese python for 50 dollars (which is approx the average price for a burm now) that can get 16 feet and larger, chances are it will be more to show off the snake than to care for it responsibly. Anyway im not trying to say what they should be sold for, just somthing to think about.

Nick
Atlantic Reptiles

Gary D. · 10-10-04, 11:55 AM

Sadly The market for Common boas has crashed hard. I fully agree that these animals should not be sold for under $100. And not just to protect the market, but as you point out to make them less disposable as well. At the last TARAS show there were a lot of B.c.i. and start price on Saturday morning was as low as $80.00. I have since stopped breeding my B.c.i. because I saw the market getting bad a couple of years ago out here. Last spring was my last litter of Central Americans too. Sadly There are so many people just pounding them out that really nice ones don't sell for much more than plain-jane ones, as such Breeders aren't going to invest reasonable money for outstanding animals, unless it's a really nice pastel or a salmon, because they can't sell the offspring for any more.

I would wholesale my boas for that a few years ago. In my opinion if you want to dump them at wholesale prices , sell them to the pet shops or wholesalers. Public can buy them from the pet store for $200 or the breeder for $150. Boas become far less disposable, and the breeders do better (even those who want to flog them). Frankly I don't understand that if you had 35 babies you wanted to dump for next to nothing, why you would want the headache of trying to sell them individually (unless even the wholesalers don't want them).

GD

hooter · 10-10-04, 12:08 PM

I have seen CBB Ball Pythons on kingsnake for $15 and corns as low as $8 a peice. One day just about all snakes will be around $10-$20 and the market will be worth nothing anymore.

This is why so many people work with color and pattern morphs to acount for the loss of money and also for the pasion of working with something new.

Stockwell · 10-10-04, 12:24 PM

hooter, it probably wont be quite that bad, as once prices get too low, breeders stop producing and drop their supply from the market.
This then starts the cycle over again. Sometimes it will find an equalibrium, other times, it will just continue to be cyclical, as there is always someone new, trying to get market share, hungry for a buck that will undercut everyone else..
It's the way a free economy works.. It sucks if you're a breeder that assumed prices would hold, but can be great if you're in acqusition mode, and have been waiting for prices to drop,and find animals in your price range there weren't previously.

Invictus · 10-10-04, 12:46 PM

I have every intention in the world to breed Colombians this year, but I am only breeding the BEST stock in my collection. I'm talking high red in the tails, wicked pink sides, light coloration, etc... and I will NOT sell them for less than $100, even for the less pretty ones. I think the market crashing is going to put the onus on breeders to have only the best stock available. If you're cranking out the same thing everyone else is, make sure yours is far better. That's what will keep the market at around $100-$125. If someone says "Why are yours more expensive than this guy's", the answer will be "Well, look at mine, and you tell me why they are more expensive."

latazyo · 10-10-04, 12:57 PM

the poor attitude that normals are "ugly" is what is causing their prices to go down

Jeff_Favelle · 10-10-04, 01:31 PM

I've never seen people able to sell CBB boas (Bci) for more than $100-$125. So I wouldn't say the prices are crashing. They have been bred for a very very very LONG time and they have LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of babies when they do breed, so I would say in the grand scheme of things, they have held their price very very well. Don't you think?

I would say that they are like Rainbows. They reached their threshold. I see the same price as I did 5 years ago, so I don't see the price difference that you do.

As for Ball Pythons, when I had my first clutch in 1995, I kept all the females and sold the males to pet stores in Vancouver for $50 each. This year, I sold all the females for $150 and the males for $90-100 each. Hardly a price crash, LOL!

Jeff_Favelle · 10-10-04, 01:40 PM

Quote:

I have seen CBB Ball Pythons on kingsnake for $15 and corns as low as $8 a peice.

Yeah, those Ball Pythons are NOT captive bred.

Quote:

One day just about all snakes will be around $10-$20 and the market will be worth nothing anymore.

Yeah, hardly. That's what everyone said when Leo Geckos crashed and became $10 each. That was 6 years ago. Does the market look like its crashed? From my position, the market looks BETTER and BETTER every year. But then again, I think you have to actually be selling snakes to have any sort of view on the market. The classifieds can only tell you so much.

Again, how can the boa market seemed to have crashed when the prices are the same as 5 (or even longer) years ago? And how can the Ball market be perceived as crashing when the prices are HIGHER than 10 years ago? I don't get the connection.