To Brumate, or not to Brumate?

Invictus · 10-15-03, 07:23 AM

Well, that season is upon us, and I am deciding whether or not to brumate my corns, kings, and milks. Most will be breeding, but some will not. Here's the problem:

Our house has a fully finished basement, and is so well insulated it would probably withstand a nuclear attack. No matter how hard I try, I cannot get the basement below 70 degrees. This could make brumation VERY difficult.

So, the questions for those with the experience:

1) Has anyone ever bred Kings, Sinaloan Milks, and common Corns successfully without a brumation period?
2) Are other factors like lowered day cycles and slightly lower temps (just shutting off their heat source in a room that is about 72 ambiently) enough to trigger mating?
3) If you've ever faced the problem of a warm house, what did you use to lower the temps? Suggestions? (air conditioning is right out of the question for me, btw)
4) Is 2 months (December/January) enough time for brumation? Do they really care?

I look forward to hearing from the colubrid breeders here.

BWSmith · 10-15-03, 07:40 AM

Use an old Refridgerator

BWSmith · 10-15-03, 07:50 AM

I guess I should elaborate LOL

you can drill a couple holes int he fridge for air and put a little fan to circulate it. Then just keep adjusting it till you get the temps you want. I was talking to one breeder who does not even change light cycles or lower temps. He lets them get their system clean then just tosses them rights in the 55 or 60 degree fridge. He has great success every year. But I have never tried it.

Jeff_Favelle · 10-15-03, 08:16 AM

How does he "not change his temps" when he puts them in the fridge at 55-60F??? Does that mean he keeps them at this temperature all year-round??

Removed_2815 · 10-15-03, 12:27 PM

Jeff,
I think he means that there is no gradual reduction in temperature and photoperiod before they go in the fridge. That is, they go right from a 12 hour photoperiod and mid-80's temperature one day to the dark cold fridge the next day.
Cheers,
RMB

gonesnakee · 10-15-03, 02:17 PM

I don't mess around with mine either. They go from the snake room straight to the basement into the cold & dark with no farting around in between. I just make sure their guts are empty & then its instant burmation time. I find the coldest spots & use them for the males of the species that should be burmated at the coldest temps (Mtn kings etc) & use the warmer spots for like female Corns etc. Remember the burmation is more important for the development on viable sperm in the males than it is to trigger ovulation etc. later in the females so give the males a longer colder burmation than the girls if possible. I also try to have the girls on shorter ones so they can spend more time feeding to gain the proper breeding weights etc. As far as the warm house thing goes, you must have a spot in the basement where it is cooler. Or what about basement windows for extra cold air from outside. Where there is a will there is a way. I'm sure you will figure something out. Good Luck Mark I.

Simon · 10-15-03, 02:22 PM

Well you can definately breed corns without burmation...
I have did it before
and I have to do it again this year...reason..I am living with 3 people...and in an appartment...don't want everyone to complain that I am keeping the house so cold and freeze everyone to death...

the only difference is that burmating corns will get the male's fertility rate a bit higher...other than that I don't think there is much difference..

Simon Sansom · 10-15-03, 03:14 PM

Hi Invictus,

Apparently SOME temperate-climate colubrids may be successfully reproduced without "brumation", as Simon F. has previously demonstrated to us with his corn snakes...

In my opinion, they really should be brumated properly, however.
BW's suggestion of modifying and using an old refrigerator is an excellent idea, and I know several folks who have used that system.

There CAN be problems if brumating animals should accidentally warm up temporarily.
Our own Mr. Stockwell can most likely fill us in on some details, if he's reading this...

And yes, in my experience, two months down is quite sufficient to induce reproduction in most colubrids. Lot's of folks keep 'em down longer as a respite from feeding and maintenance, though.

I'm lucky in that I have an excellent root-cellar in my basement which stays at 55 degrees F all winter.

When I want to place the snakes in the brumation area, I remove them from their heated room and just let them sit at room temps for a couple of days, then it's straight into the cellar.

Cheers, man!

Let us know how things work out for you.

Simon