Necropsy Results

Samba · 06-19-03, 03:17 PM

For those of you who have been following Darwin's tragic story, I now have the necropsy results for us all to analyze.

Yesturday I spoke with the vet who performed the necropsy. She had only spent a brief time studying Darwin's internal structures, but noted that one of the first things she noticed was major liver damage. She said that many different things can cause the liver to fail, but in this case it was probably either a.) pathological (bacterial or viral) or b.) overdose of medication.

We are going to get the pathology done to rule that (bacterial or viral infections) out (this may be helpful in evaluating my husbandry practices... if this was in fact the cause of death). The necropsy will cost me an additional $85.00 plus a few weeks of waiting.

She did conclude, however, (and I must concur) that Darwin was in reasonably good health before being treated for Tapeworms. At his death he weighed 37 grams, and still had a considerable amount of fat stored in his tail. I will keep you guys updated, and if anyone has any additional comments or information they'd like to add I'd love some feedback.

This has been a very trying time for me, but knowing I will get a chance to know what really happened is worth all the money in the world. Thank you all again for your support. I will update soon.

Dragon_Slave · 06-19-03, 03:39 PM

Thanks for posting the results Samba, that is a LOT of money for a necropsy... wow... my vet did my dragons for free. Only because she wanted to and it was her suggestion, for her own knowledge. I'm sure your mind will be at peace soon enough.

drewlowe · 06-19-03, 04:11 PM

Samba as soon as you find out whether it was bacterial or overdose please let me know. It kinda scares me with all the panacur loki has been givin. Do you know any way they can tell liver damage before losing your animal.

I hope you find out the answer soon so you can be at ease. Take care.

Jamie

Colonel SB · 06-19-03, 05:22 PM

I agree with ya Samba peace of mind is worth a lot...keep us updeated.

Repti · 06-19-03, 06:57 PM

I read your post and i'm a little bit scared. I juste came to my vet 2 days ago and she gave me some panacur to treat the inside worms of my gecko. SHe told me to give 0.2 mL per week during 4 weeks. Is that ok??
Should I be worried?

Repti:grab:

Alicewave · 06-20-03, 07:22 AM

Panacur is a pretty commonly used med to treat worms. I wouldn't worry too much. I think it's more likely that the Droncit caused the liver problems but I could be wrong. I'm glad you're getting some peace of mind. If it were my geckos I'd probably do the same thing.

Good luck with the further tests.

drewlowe · 06-20-03, 10:22 AM

repti it all depends on how much your leo weighs. When my leos received panacur for roundworms they were between 45 and 60 grams. so i would have to give anywhere from .10 to .15 to my colony. and they got 3 doses one every 2 weeks. I hope that helps out a little. and i have heard panacur is hard on the kidneys so make sure they do not get dehydrated to bad.

Repti · 06-21-03, 08:24 AM

My leo weight 77 gram and is one year old. I have to give them 0.2 mL of Panacur per week during 4 weeks.
Sound ok?

Repti

Samba · 06-21-03, 11:46 AM

Jamie, again thanks. I will let you know when I get the pathology done. It will, however, take awhile. I have to raise $85.00 (exactly the amount of my disability payements per month) then Darwin's liver would be sent to Oregon (the vet's preference for his specialty). The only thing knawing on me now is was it my fault or the vet's? I can't stand not knowing. My other geckos are fine so I'm just concentrating on them for the time being. I would like to get another male gecko, but I simply can't afford it.

Repti- If your vet has recommended that dosage it's probably correct. I must ask... is your gecko going to receive Panacur everyday for 4 weeks? Mine was only wormed for 10 days. I was just curious. Good luck with it, and keep us updated!

drewlowe · 06-21-03, 02:26 PM

Repti
What kind of worms does your leo have????
I personaly would call your vet or call another vet and get a second opinoin.I by far am not qualified as a vet. but i can tell you what 2 different vets on 2 seperate times have told me. I have dealt with worms 2 times in 2 years. Panacur was prescribed both times. And the doses were once every 2 weeks for 3 doses. so it spanded out for 6 weeks. The reason for every 2 weeks was because panacur only kills off the live worms and not the eggs. so you give doses every 2 weeks to kill off any of the eggs that had hatched. i have also been told to make sure your reptile has access to clean water at all times and that they are acctually drinking the water cause panacur is very hard on the kidneys. i hope this helps you out. But please call your vet and talk with him/her. or call another herp vet in your area and ask how they would administer panacur to a reptile. if you have any questions ask me and i will help you as much as i can based on experinces i have had.

Samba, please update me when you do find out. Because i'm just as curious as you are to find out the results. Please don't blame yourself cause you did every thing you could to try to save darwin. You did more than most people i know would have. As a side note i will talk to my boyfriend and see if he will let me help you out. I would like to try to give you another male but it would be awhile before i could. I curently have 6 eggs in the incubator nothing special maybe high yellows or tangarine. Not sure until they hatch though. They are set at the temps to be females but last year i had 2 hatch to be males. so maybe one of these may come out to be males who knows. But i would be willing to give you one if he agrees with me. if you would like to talk to me on this just send me a pm.

Also i would like to update you guys on how that ParaZap is working. Loki and the rest of my leos have been givin panacur for exactly one week now. And i have noticed a good change in all of them. Loki which is my sickest and has been separate from the rest was not eating at all no matter how hard i tried. i was force feeding her baby food for a little over a month and every time she pooped it was very runny. the second day of receiving parazap she ate 8 meal worms and the next day she had the most solid poop i had seen from her in months. the 5 day getting parazap she ate another 8 meal worms and she has had several not runny and not quite solid poops. she starting to become a little more alert and actually fight back with me. a major improvement from a week ago.

As far as the other leos go their poops were solid but not completely digested. after getting parazap they all have started having completely digested thier food and have a very hardy appetite. You can also use parazap as a preventive. If you would like to check into it the web site is

www.parazap.com

I hope this helps if you have any questions about parazap you can also email the owner val and he will get back with you very quick and he was very helpful with me. and answered every question i had.

Repti · 06-22-03, 11:58 AM

Samba: I have to give him 0.2 mL one time per week during 4 weeks. That makes 0.8 mL during a month.

Drewlove: I do not remember the name but i'm pretty sure it was round worms. Will the Panacur be ok to kill the round worms?

Repti

drewlowe · 06-22-03, 12:42 PM

yes repti panacur is prescibed for roundworms. but like i said in my post above. i would call your vet and ask why every week cause that doesn't give the eggs(tapeworm eggs) enough time to hatch. And panacur doesn't kill the eggs. Also check into www.parazap.com even though my leos were given panacur it still didn't get them back to the way they were before they got worms. But i've been giving them parazap for a week now and have noticed a huge change in thier eating behavor. It's all for the better.

and the .2ml. sound like the appropriate dosage to give but i personaly think it should be given once every 2 weeks for 3 doses. so treatment should last 6 weeks. and remember make sure your leo. is drinking plenty of water.

Repti · 06-22-03, 03:32 PM

My leo had them since he was born as the vet told me. I believe it cause I saw no change in is behavior. He eats like a pig! I just wanted to make sure he was alright by making a fecal done. That's why!

He always have a water dish near. How can I really make sure he do not get dehydrated???

Since 2 days I put a bottle of glass( humid hide) because I thauht he was shedding. He is always in it!! Should I get worried?? Does it have a link with the worm? It's very humid and wet in there. Should I just take it away?

Repti

SnowSnake · 06-22-03, 06:00 PM

Repti- If your leo feels dry or needs to be cooler he will go there. My female does that too, she digs a hole and sleeps in it

.

Samba · 06-23-03, 10:00 AM

Jaime... you are very kind to offer me a leo. The phase doesn't matter, and of course it would never take Darwin's place, but I'd have something to shower all my love on! You are so generous, but even if you can't, or your boyfriend doesn't agree, that's ok, it's the thought that counts. Darwin himself was a B-Day gift from my own boyfriend less then a year ago. (My BF isn't the gift-giving type, so it was really special that he got me a gecko!)

I am going to try and order that parazap soon... it really sounds like it's making a world of a difference in your geckos, especially Loki. I hope she's doing well and gaining weight... please keep updating me on her progress...

About the Panacur... now I'm a little confused... but this is what I gather... some of you have treated your geckos with a single dose of Panacur every two weeks(?) My vet told me to administer 0.2 Cc of Panacur EVERYDAY for 10 days. Is Panacur safe to give this often? Has anyone else here treated their geckos this often without ill effects? I'm going to do a little research on this...

Unfortunately I have not yet sent out Darwin's liver for the pathology. (It's a money thing.) I will let you guys know the results when I do. The vet who performed Darwin's necropsy is a very patient and understanding woman who I think I will make my regular vet from now on.

I have been met with some animosity from the vet who treated Darwin with Tapeworms originally, and feel I can no longer continue a working relationship with him. Even if he did no harm, I feel he could have shown a little more concern, instead of blowing everything off;

("Doc, he's losing A LOT of weight!" "Don't worry about it, he's still got a nice tail." "He should be fine." "He'll be ok." etc.)

I feel he let me down, but like I said, I may just feel this way because I want someone to blame. No one ever told me Darwin might DIE. It's like having a relative going in for a 'routine' surgery, only to have them pass away from a complication later... you always want to know if something more could have been done...