Semi-starter Colubrid

ThEmAdHaTtEr · 04-08-03, 04:55 PM

Hey guys. The herp show is the 26 and ive been looking into buying another snake...This time it will be a Colubrid. I have never owned a Colubrid before but I currently own 2 Ball Pythons in great health. Anyway, I'm looking for a Colubrid not too much money, stays relativley small, easy to maintain, doesnt need a lot of room, and things like that. Temperment really doesnt matter, but I'm not looking for a hognose (I know some of you might suggest this

) Or a Kingsnake due to my other snakes health, if a kingsnake gets out and into my BP's tanks, good bye BP. Anyway, thanks again all.

marisa · 04-08-03, 05:16 PM

haha dude. A kingsnake couldn't eat a Ball Python unless the Ball Python was *JUST* born and the kingsnake was huge. My three footer can hardly eat an adult mouse, let alone a fat BP.

They wont' hunt out your other snakes and kill them. They are snake eaters. If you fed them snakes, they will eat them. Even if it got loose, AND the size extremes I mentioned above were the case, its HIGHLY unlikely it would have any care to go near your Ball Pythons tank.

I keep all my snakes, including kingsnakes in the same room. Even corns, milks and other colubrids eat other snakes.

As for what colubrid, kings and corns and milks all stay under a good size. There are other types of rat snakes, a million differetn colubrids!

Marisa

ThEmAdHaTtEr · 04-08-03, 07:52 PM

Heh, well, both my BPs are around two feet, Ones like 2'4" and the others like 2'6". But thanks for the info, this broadens my horizens. I always thought the small of my BPs might spark the kings apetite or something. Another things i dont really like about kings/milks is they musk and poop on you, a LOT, especially when you first buy them. Thanks again.

vanderkm · 04-08-03, 08:09 PM

Not that I would want to discourage you from a colubrid, because I have lots and they are great snakes, but if you are used to the metabolic rate of ball pythons you will find colubrids poop a lot more often and it tends to be runnier and stinkier than boids - usually a soft plop instead of solid formed feces. We started with a bullsnake and ball pythons and couldn't believe the difference in how frequently and how much the bullsnake pooped.

Colubrids are a lot more active when you are holding them - somewhat less likely to settle down wrapped around your wrist or arm than a boid. They also seem to cruise their cages more than many of our boids so we give them quite a bit of floor space in the cage - more for a 3 foot cornsnake than a 3 foot ball python. You are likely aware of these things but just thought I would mention them.

There are just so many colubrids to choose from but I think there is a reason cornsnakes are so popular. They have so many colors, are so tolerant of everything, are dependable feeders and have a great personality. They definately aren't as likley to musk or bite as cal kings in our experience. Some of the other, smaller kings are really worth considering though - the variables are great - stay quite small and many have dramatic colors from tricolored to those like grey-bands. They virtually never bite and are calm to handle, ours have never musked - and a little less common than corns (but a bit more expensive). For a bigger colubrid with a bit more spunk, nothing beats a bullsnake (or any of the related guys) in my opinion. They can be over 6 feet, have a tremendous hiss and are an impressive snake, but need quite a bit of room.

Best of luck with your choice,

mary v.

marisa · 04-08-03, 08:16 PM

I totally agree with the above post. Aside from the bullsnake part which I can't comment on since I don't own one....

But yeah as soon as I had an experience with a Ball Python I couldn't believe how much more my corns/kings and milk crap. And how much harder it is to clean up. Its not a big deal, but definitly a huge differance.

And for sure about the activity level. When I clean out my Ball Pythons cage, I take him out and set him down and clean his cage. Not that I don't supervise him, and I know he could easily take off, but with a colubrid there really is no "putting down" for even a second as they will take off very easily. But my BP is content to sit and stare or move very slowly.

Corns don't usually musk a lot, and aren't the biggest poopers on people. But it does happen, but not very often. Milks and kings musk, but it is just as likely you will purchase one that doesn't musk. Both my kings I have had for over two years, and I have been musked on once. My corns have *never* musked, and my milk snake has never musked but certainly doesn't like handling. lol.

Anyways, aside from all that, colubrids are my fav. And I am sure if you choose one you will be happy with it.

Marisa

ThEmAdHaTtEr · 04-08-03, 08:33 PM

Thanks to the both of you! I pretty much knew all that but never took it into consideration. With the cleaning cages thing and putting them down and them taking off made my decision for me. I think ill hafta stick with my BPs as I love them to death. Thanks again to the both of you! You saved me from making a big mistake.

Tim_Cranwill · 04-08-03, 08:38 PM

I guess I'll throw my two cents into the jar as well...

If I had to own any of the snakes I have now as strictly a "pet" I think I'd go in the following order...

1. South Florida kings - GREAT feeders, very calm temper, looks to die for as well.

Never musked on me and never bit me... ok, bit me once, but it was my fault... lol

2. Corns - For so many reasons; great feeders, manageable size, calm temperment, price, looks... basically the perfect pet snake if you're looking for a colubrid. Not everyone's cup of tea, but still a great pet snake.

3. Honduran Milks - Looks, looks, looks! A bit skittish when young but they will calm down quite a bit with a little attention. They are by far one of the most brilliantly colored reptiles on the planet and grow to some impressive lengths. Mine are still young so I can't comment too much on their long term advantages.

Lastly, Cal kings - I have only 6 of these kings but they are slowly going lower and lower on my list of favorites. They are if-ey to handle because of how easily startled they are, they musk quite a bit when young and they may bite at the scent of other snakes. BUT, they can be a great pet as well. They are very good eaters, come in a variety of morphs and colors, stay in the mid-sized range, mid price range as well ($60-$150) and do calm down significantly with age.

Well, take that for whatever it's worth to you... Go luck with your shopping!

Vanan · 04-09-03, 03:55 AM

I agree with cranwill. Totally. I'd say the south floridas hands down. As long as you watch ur fingers during feeding tme, they're great snakes. Even behave like boids in that they're less skittish and tend to coil around your hand, or finger (at least mine does).

Corns- can't go wrong
Kings- can be fiesty as babies, but then again so can some corns babies
Milks- generally skittish as fiesty sometimes even into adulthood. Try a sinaloan or a mexican for a calmer adult milk.

In any case, go with what u feel. Don't be put off by what most say about them being more messy and needing more maintenance. I own boids and colubrids and IMO the rewards from a colubrid totally outweigh their ngeative points. Don't knock it til you've tried it.

Good luck in deciding!

J_Riley · 04-09-03, 07:30 AM

Colubrids go a little more often, but it's not like it's every other day or something (unless it's a Drymarchon genus). Mine are about every 7-10 days based on their feeding schedule, which is roughly the same.

You definitely have to 'hand over hand' them more than boids, but being a colubridophile, I find boids to be sluggish and slothlike (no offense, just my opinion). My bullsnake is 8 months old, but she's relatively calm for handling. No, she won't sit in my hand (besides the fact she's too big to fit), but she kinda pokes around. You won't be be able to sit and watch tv without keeping an eye on them.

If possible, find someone with colubrids and spend some time with theirs to get a feel for the family.

Jeremy · 04-09-03, 09:51 AM

Welp, I do admit, my experince with colubrids fails in comaprison to most(I only keep Pituophis, 1 baby corn and a female eastern Gartersnake. The rest are venomous) but out of the ones I do keep, I would suggest a gophersnake, probally a Sonoran over most. My Sonoran is very shy, dosent poop much(compared to the pines and bulls) and has never bitten me. However, Sonorans are hands down the largest Gophersnakes and I have seen 7 ft individuals before so thats proabbly outa the range of what your looking for. The Cape gophers stay smaller(I have 1 female), are about one of the best looking snakes on the planet and dont poop much but they are extreamly shy and very, very bitey, especially at a young age. I think they stress way too easy for a beginier pituophis/

The Garter is a very interesting little critter and eats anything, dosent poop much and handles alright but she is very prone to bite any movement in front of her, thinking its food. Ive had her try to eat my finger before!!!!

The corns I have kept in the past were great as far as temperment, never really seeming to care what you do with them but I found them to be almost boreing in that effect and they poop more then any of my other colubrids!

The pines and bulls are far and away my favs and I think one cant go wrong with a Northern pinesnake. They will however get atleast 6 ft and very bulky and are rather active. Their temperment can be bad at times as babies but like most pines, they usualy calm down or atleast stop hissing once they are grabed. As adults, they usualy only give alittle soft hiss when being handled and that about the extent of their defenciveness. They can get squirmy but nothing too bad.

The reason i speak so highly of the Northerns is that they are very, very inteligent snakes and are extreamly curious. They will sit there and watch while your moveing around them. You can litteraly put your finger to their cage and they will fallow its movments. This reaction is almost definately because they think its feeding time but it does make them seem a bit more brainy then most other snakes I have worked with.

Welp, not much info on a good begineer which meets your critera but atleast it gives you a look into some other sp, once you have decided to take further steps.

Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you decide.

Jeremy

Blackwidow69 · 04-09-03, 04:24 PM

Well i like corns as they are so easy to care for and to top that all off yes they come in tons of diffrent colors and patterns.. Mine eat very well and have never had any probs with bitting or getting pooed on.. yeah they move around alot but we like um.. also the temps dont have to be as high as for my boas and my pythons... Mt next corns are gona be Bloodred and Sunglow and maybe a Candy cane...

**Andy_G** · 04-09-03, 09:07 PM

My so far experience with cal kings has been very pleasurable myself. I recently tamed down my nine month old and she just wraps around my arm and looks around, and no musk, I find corns move a lot more than my king does while handling, but it may be just my snake. I didn't really care about the musk because, honestly, what's the big deal, you can't usually smell it unless you go and sniff it real close. They don't poop unless they have to go, they don't use poop like musk, any snake will go when they need to, nut I only have one Cali King so it just may be my snake. I like how I have tamed her down, something would be missing if she was calm from the start I think. It was like a reward for caring for her thus far. Florida or eastern kings if you want a bigger specie, and corns or cali kings if you want smaller. I think corns and cali's are really really equal. JMO though.

**Andy_G** · 04-09-03, 09:09 PM

Typos, sorry, tired.

Lizzy001 · 04-10-03, 10:22 AM

i think corns are a good snake to have.....and it aint going to eat ur other snakes!

happy hunting!

fr0glet · 04-10-03, 05:48 PM

Well I do love to chip in my comments so here goes

My first snake was my tangerine honduran milksnake, I think he's positively stunning. He's never musked, pooped on me, or attempted to bite. He's over 5 feet long. He's busy, busy, busy in his tank, busy in my hands, busy on my shoulders and I like that high level of activity.

I'm currently caring for 6 corn snakes... 2 have musked me, 3 rattle their tails like little badasses around feeding time, and 1 poops on me every chance he gets.

I also have a pueblan milk in rescue... he's fast. Wiggly. Can't settle down.

I guess because I started with colubridae I don't have a problem with their pooping cycle. I feed on Saturday, they've generally crapped by the following Friday. That's fine with me. In fact I worry about the BPs in my care because they're so slow to poo!! I find a warm bath loosens things up.