Feeding advice for yellow rat

poomwah · 03-05-14, 09:10 PM

Hi guys/gals,
was hoping to get some advice on gettiing my yellow rat to eat.
It's 17 months old but has been fed only pinkies its whole life. It's only 29 grams. I've had it two weeks today.
I left it alone for a week before offering food, it ignored it. Left it alone for another 5 days except for taking it out for a picture. Offered food again, no interest.
I'm being hammered on another forum that its because my setup is wrong.
I have her in an aquarium, with several secure hides. They say she won't eat because the enclosure is too big and that I'm overstressing her by offering food too often. Even someone on this forum has accused me of mauling the snake. Umm. ok. I've given up on that forum because if someone gives me advice, like scenting for instance, someone will jump in there and say NO, its the set up that's the problem, if he fixes the setup it WILL eat.
They want me to put her in a smaller enclosure then wait another week.
I don't like that idea since I've already had the snake 2 weeks, its insanely small for its age, and I don't like the idea of it going any longer than it has to.
So, we've already established on this forum that the enclosure size is irrelevant.
Here's what I've done, on two different occasions. Offer ft pinkie by dangling from tongs. Didn't seem to care. Briefly heated the pink by dipping it in a jar of hot water. No difference. the, deli cup overnight in a dark quiet room.
Both times she refused to eat, in the morning she was curled up inside the lid of the cup.
I'm NOT moving her into another enclosure because I honestly don't believe that has anything to do with it. She's not showing any signs of stress, just lack of interest.
What would you guys do next and how long would you wait to do it?

**EL Ziggy** · 03-05-14, 11:03 PM

Poom, I wouldn't worry just yet. Two weeks isn't a long time for a snake to not eat. It sounds like you're on the right track. If you've covered her tank and left her overnight with the pinky twice to no avail, you could try scenting the prey item. I know some people use chicken broth or lizards (if you can find them). If that doesn't work you may have to try a live feeder just to kick start her appetite. I would offer food every 7 days until she eats.

**Tsubaki** · 03-06-14, 03:31 AM

Water from canned tuna always did the trick with my hog babies, not sure if it would benefit a yellow rat but can't hurt to try..

Starbuck · 03-06-14, 05:20 AM

Can you post a picture of the enclosure? Several people here have advised that you increase the cover substantially. I like to use macaroni boxes and cardboard egg crates for small snakes.
tuna water can encourage feeding, as can live pinks. Feed at dusk, and then make sure no one enters that room until the next morning

Terranaut · 03-06-14, 05:36 AM

If you could, post a pic of the entire enclosure or a few different angles. Tell us how you heat it and what the temps are. How you measure the temps. Also when you say dipped in hot water. Do you mean just for a few seconds? You should fully thaw the prey and then put in in the hottest tap water you have for at least a minute or 2. Let it stand another min and pat it dry. Set it on the cage floor in front of the snake and leave the room immediately. Come back in an hour. If it's still there leave it overnight. You could also cover the viv with a sheet. Good luck.

KORBIN5895 · 03-06-14, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poomwah

Hi guys/gals,
was hoping to get some advice on gettiing my yellow rat to eat.
It's 17 months old but has been fed only pinkies its whole life. It's only 29 grams. I've had it two weeks today.
I left it alone for a week before offering food, it ignored it. Left it alone for another 5 days except for taking it out for a picture. Offered food again, no interest.
I'm being hammered on another forum that its because my setup is wrong.
I have her in an aquarium, with several secure hides. They say she won't eat because the enclosure is too big and that I'm overstressing her by offering food too often. Even someone on this forum has accused me of mauling the snake. Umm. ok. I've given up on that forum because if someone gives me advice, like scenting for instance, someone will jump in there and say NO, its the set up that's the problem, if he fixes the setup it WILL eat.
They want me to put her in a smaller enclosure then wait another week.
I don't like that idea since I've already had the snake 2 weeks, its insanely small for its age, and I don't like the idea of it going any longer than it has to.
So, we've already established on this forum that the enclosure size is irrelevant.
Here's what I've done, on two different occasions. Offer ft pinkie by dangling from tongs. Didn't seem to care. Briefly heated the pink by dipping it in a jar of hot water. No difference. the, deli cup overnight in a dark quiet room.
Both times she refused to eat, in the morning she was curled up inside the lid of the cup.
I'm NOT moving her into another enclosure because I honestly don't believe that has anything to do with it. She's not showing any signs of stress, just lack of interest.
What would you guys do next and how long would you wait to do it?

Could you quote whoever accused you of mauling the snake? Who ever would do that is a complete jerk.

Mikoh4792 · 03-06-14, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poomwah

Hi guys/gals,
was hoping to get some advice on gettiing my yellow rat to eat.
It's 17 months old but has been fed only pinkies its whole life. It's only 29 grams. I've had it two weeks today.
I left it alone for a week before offering food, it ignored it. Left it alone for another 5 days except for taking it out for a picture. Offered food again, no interest.
I'm being hammered on another forum that its because my setup is wrong.
I have her in an aquarium, with several secure hides. They say she won't eat because the enclosure is too big and that I'm overstressing her by offering food too often. Even someone on this forum has accused me of mauling the snake. Umm. ok. I've given up on that forum because if someone gives me advice, like scenting for instance, someone will jump in there and say NO, its the set up that's the problem, if he fixes the setup it WILL eat.
They want me to put her in a smaller enclosure then wait another week.
I don't like that idea since I've already had the snake 2 weeks, its insanely small for its age, and I don't like the idea of it going any longer than it has to.
So, we've already established on this forum that the enclosure size is irrelevant.
Here's what I've done, on two different occasions. Offer ft pinkie by dangling from tongs. Didn't seem to care. Briefly heated the pink by dipping it in a jar of hot water. No difference. the, deli cup overnight in a dark quiet room.
Both times she refused to eat, in the morning she was curled up inside the lid of the cup.
I'm NOT moving her into another enclosure because I honestly don't believe that has anything to do with it. She's not showing any signs of stress, just lack of interest.
What would you guys do next and how long would you wait to do it?

It's not the size of the enclosure...that is for sure. Snakes get stressed out from lack of security, not abundant space. So as Terranaut said, it would help to post pics.

I do agree you should wait longer inbetween feeding attempts, sometimes trying to feed too often will stress them out.

If there's nothing inherently wrong with the snake(parasites, disease, injury...etc) then I would have to guess that the snake is either insecure from lack of cover, or the thermal gradient is not proper.

Do you handle the snake?

poomwah · 03-06-14, 06:58 AM

thanks everyone except korbin for trying to help. I'm trying to get pics of the enclosure but I don't want to use the flash, and without it, the pics aren't showing much of anything.
The snake has been handled minimally, and by that I mean, it was handled when transfered to its enclosure and one other time long enough for a picture to be taken.
Ironically, Korbin , the one who demanded all kinds of proof, also feels the need to accuse me of mauling the snake because I handled the snake to get some of the proof he demanded. So Korbin, if you are not going to be helpful like everyone else is trying to be, please stay out of it.
The temperature fluctuates depending on the weather, 71-73 on the cool end, 82-84 on the warm end. I'm using flexwatt on a rheostat. For instrumentation I usually use a laser thermometer, but since reaching in there to measure temps might scare her, i have two digitals with probes. For hides I have a mixture of terra cotta pieces, slightly curved bark, pieces of cardboard, the floor of the enclosure is littered with them. Three sides of the glass are covered.
Thanks for the heads up guys, I never would have guessed that offering food after five days was soon enough to cause stress. Especially since she doesn't show any signs of it. She actually acts hungry which leads me to wonder if its less a stress issue, and more of her not recognizing the rodent as a prey item.
Zig, normally I wouldn't worry about missing two feedings. I've had some snakes in the past that had appetites that changed as much as the weather.
But since this one is really small for its age, and it hasn't eaten for me yet, and someone I really trust thinks it might be wild caught, the lack of feeding is more of a concern for me than usual.
Thanks again guys.

**Aaron_S** · 03-06-14, 08:03 AM

Your snake is already stressed if it isn't eating.

I have had wild caught snakes shipped from the US up to Canada eat within 24 hours.

It is due to a couple reasons I see. You're using deli cup tricks already and that's just not needed.

You're inexperienced, and that's okay but it's hurting your situation right now. I know this because you're worried about an undersized snake but otherwise healthy snake not eating. IT WILL BE FINE not eating for a few weeks. Yes, even a few more than it already has. Small for age has nothing to do with it's overall health and ability to go without food. Stop saying it, please.

You haven't attempted live yet so go do that. Attempt to feed the snake once every five days. No handling. No tricks. Just the same prey type every 5 days. Don't worry about substrate ingestion or anything. Just leave a live pinky in there. Once every 5 days.

poomwah · 03-06-14, 08:48 AM

Why is it if you are so experienced that stress is the only reason you can see for a snake not eating? With your vast experience, I guess you've eliminated the possibility that the animal might just not be interested in rodents. Perhaps that's why the people above recommended scenting.
This snake is so stressed out that when I walked in the room to try to take pictures of the enclosure, the snake was crawling around on TOP of the hides. He's so stressed out that if I change the water, the snake approaches to see what it is. So stressed out that instead of retreating from the attempt to tease feed, he approaches, but shows as much interest in the tongs themselves as it does in the pinky.
Why is it that it all comes down to my inexperience. Because you are an "expert".
I've dealt with wild caught snakes as well. I've dealt with stressed snakes too. I've had some that ate right away, I've had some that took several months.
This snake is not showing any signs of stress, its showing signs of being hungry, but it is showing no interest in the food.
MY EXPERIENCE tells me that the snake is not stressed but is not recognizing the prey item as a food source.
The reason I keep mentioning the snakes size for age is that is shows the snake has not been fed much. Not a sign of its health BUT a VERY possible sign of how the snakes appetite or POSSIBLY a history of having a reluctance to feed. Am I worried about the snake starving for missing a couple meals , absolutely not. Am I worried that the snake is going to have problems if it doesn't eat because its small, again absolutely not. My concern is, IF it is a wild caught animal, IF it doesn't recognize rodents as a prey item, then its something I want to get on top of NOW instead of later. THAT is why the size of the snake for its age has bearing here. Live with it. Instead of asking me to please stop saying something I didn't say, please read what I actually did say. I never said the snakes health had anything do to with its size for its age. For you, and anyone else who has been refusing to listen : The snake being so small for its age shows a POSSIBLE trend, it is VERY possible that it could be a problem feeder for any number of reasons. EXPERIENCE tells me this. And EXPERIENCE tells me not to ignore it and to be ready for the possibility.
So other people are suggesting that I try other things BEFORE trying live, so why don't you go tell them they are inexperienced as well. How about two other people said wait a week, one said I'm stressing the snake out by over offering food, because I offered the snake food 5 days after the first attempt. You say offer 5 days, like I've been doing. So that makes them inexperienced too right?
Deli cups not necessary, maybe , maybe not. But, in my experience, when I've had snakes that acted hungry, but showed no interest in food, deli cupping has worked.
No tricks? like deli cupping, that often works. or scenting like has been suggested above, but you don't accuse them of being inexperienced. Don't worry about substrate ingestion, listening to that comment alone would prove lack of experience. I am fully aware of the danger of ingesting substrate and it would be absolutely foolish to say otherwise.

Terranaut · 03-06-14, 10:24 AM

Well I have to say I can totally see how anyone here would think your inexperienced. You have started many threads asking about this one snake. The nature of the questions asked would lead any experienced keep to believe you are not. Please do not be insulted, everyone is trying to help. I also thought the mauling statement was out of line but lets move on. Something is not right and we want to help you find it. Lets stick to facts and get this snake eating. Please list the info I asked for in my last post. Experienced keepers will always start with the basics and rule out all of the normal issues before moving on the improbable.

poomwah · 03-06-14, 10:58 AM

Terranaut, everyone is not trying to help, korbin is definitely not trying to help and is not "keeping it real"
Aaron is not trying to help, he has a narrow minded, myopic view that goes against what many people have suggested. You tell me how he KNOWS that the reason the snake is not eating is stress. Tell me how he KNOWS that the snake IS stressed. He doesn't.
I appreciate that many of you want to help find out what's wrong. That is clearly not the case with Aaron because he has already decided what the problem is and that's the end of the story.
Sticking to the facts ... I listed the info you asked for.
The set up is NOT the issue.... how do I know....
the snake is showing NO signs of stress, the snake is acting hungry and seems to be looking for food. When the food is offered, the snake shows no interest, it does not try to retreat, it does not go into a defensive posture, it does the same thing it does to anything else in the enclosure, it investigates it, then it goes on about it's business.
You yourself even point out experienced keepers start with the basics and rule out all of the normal issues before moving to the improbable.
I have already done that. Enclosure offers plenty of secure hiding areas, offers a temperature gradient of appropriate temperatures, snake has been left alone. Snake ignores food. Since I'm so inexperienced, explain to me how the concept that the snake isn't interested in the rodents is improbable? Explain how suspecting the specimen is wild caught is improbable.
Explain to me how experienced breeders and keepers have suggested the snake is probably wild caught and needs scented prey to switch it over to rodents. Explain why experienced keepers have said there's nothing wrong with my set up.
On second thought, screw it. This isn't worth the headache.
Thanks for those who genuinely did try to help. Piss on the rest of you.

ps. thank you to the people who sent me the PM's telling me to try not to be bothered by the narrow minded, judgmental idiots. Sorry I didn't have the tolerance to do so

KORBIN5895 · 03-06-14, 12:11 PM

Why are you asking questions if you already have the answers? Why are you ignoring ll of those who disagree with your preconceived ideas and answers? Oh that's right you vast experience and anonymous friends who keep sending you all of these PM's.....

For the record you yourself claim you aren't capable of picking such a small snake up. I would like to know exactly how you got it into the feeding container, the deli cup, the big you took a picture of it in so you could compare snake sizes (which also makes me question your quarantine practices) and your hand yesterday if you aren't picking it up? You also claim your children are afraid to hold it because it's too feisty..... How do you know it's feisty if you aren't handling it?

I have no desire to help anyone that thinks they have all of the answers nor will I help someone whose story so obviously shows them to seem less than honest.

KORBIN5895 · 03-06-14, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

I actually came up with that impression without reading past page 11 on the boi because that was where it had stopped yesterday. You seem very inexperienced, you are giving off the impression that you are mauling the poor thing and your behaviour in the boi thread seems petty and immature. You have played every card in the refund demand arsenal.

This is where the mauling thing you are so hung up on and hurt over came from. I said you are giving off the impression. I didn't say you were mauling it. There is a difference.

poomwah · 03-06-14, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Why are you asking questions if you already have the answers? Why are you ignoring ll of those who disagree with your preconceived ideas and answers? Oh that's right you vast experience and anonymous friends who keep sending you all of these PM's.....

For the record you yourself claim you aren't capable of picking such a small snake up. I would like to know exactly how you got it into the feeding container, the deli cup, the big you took a picture of it in so you could compare snake sizes (which also makes me question your quarantine practices) and your hand yesterday if you aren't picking it up? You also claim your children are afraid to hold it because it's too feisty..... How do you know it's feisty if you aren't handling it?

I have no desire to help anyone that thinks they have all of the answers nor will I help someone whose story so obviously shows them to seem less than honest.

here's a perfect example, people who only read bits and pieces and just don't get it. THis is why my 12 year old daughter even thinks you are an idiot.
If you'd take the time to read and comprehend, you'd realize I didn't say I can't pick up a snake that size, I said COMFORTABLY and safely. And use your imagination genious, put the cup or tub on its side and guide the snake into it.
And you do realize that that when you buy a container of a certain size, you can buy more than one of them. So you can have one for each snake. You knew you could do that right? So there you go, instead of accepting that possibility you'd rather attack my quarantining.
How did they know it was feisty? Because it was trying to bite as soon as I took the lid of the container out of the box. again, you take what you want from something and twist it into something that fits the way you want it to.
I didn't have the answers, I didn't think the size of the enclosure mattered, BUT, I asked to make sure. Guess what, the general consensus is that it didnt.
Several people tried to help, as usual you just tried to cause trouble.