Steady temperatures or not?

**Tsubaki** · 03-01-14, 03:56 AM

Last night i had an interesting conversation with a fellow hobbyist, he has all his animals on thermostats and only slowly changes the settings and times twice a year. As a lot of hobbyists do, he keeps the temperatures stable and perfect. Please don't think i am calling that a bad thing, i just wanted to try something slightly different. He seemed interested in my 'method' and is going to try it himself, thought i'd share and ask what you guys think.

I already create the day-time hot-spot where the ambient temperature at night is at it's minimum, so the if the animal wants to warm up at night they will have to move. Like they would have to do if they lived outside, the hottest spot during the day is usually where it cools the hardest during the night as far as i know.

And since they get most of their light from natural daylight already, it seems to make sense to not only let the light lvls vary but also the temperature. My thermostat can balance the temp perfectly off course, however i let the temperature vary more based on the weather. I made sure they cant get too low or too high, just enough change so the animal notices. The hot-spot remains the same, and i have the privilege of being able to check and change the temperatures wherever i am.

Since the temperatures change slightly daily, they have become noticeably more active. But not as you initially might expect, they do not immediately crawl nearer to their hot-spot when the ambient temperature drops a bit, or rush to the cooler end when it raises. On bad days they lie in wait more and only if the bad weather remains for a extended period they move to somewhere warmer, on sunny days however they are more likely to go actively moving around/foraging during the day as well as during the night. Whilst when the temperature remained steady, most(not all) of the foraging took place at night. The just seem to be less 'lazy' when the temperature isn't always perfect in every way.

Wonder if anyone else has ever tried this? Or is it something you would try?

KORBIN5895 · 03-01-14, 06:07 AM

I like it. It seems most cb snakes are living shorter lives and I wonder if it has to do with them constantly being at optimal temperatures which causes there metabolism to stay at a higher pace for an extended period of time.

LarryS · 03-01-14, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

I like it. It seems most cb snakes are living shorter lives and I wonder if it has to do with them constantly being at optimal temperatures which causes there metabolism to stay at a higher pace for an extended period of time.

Shorter than the same specie averages in the wild?
I honestly would have thought the opposite.

I do like the idea too though, and as I've said before I believe this is the direction our hobby is headed. I see computer integrated climate control becoming the norm even in modest setups in the future.

sharthun · 03-01-14, 06:50 AM

I like this idea! Natural climate habitat control! We need hardware and software now!

Starbuck · 03-01-14, 07:24 AM

So do you take your weather data from where they are endemic to ordo you base (bad/good) days on weather locally? I could come up with arguments for both fronts? Very interesting, I like the plan! Its a shame it is so difficult to do longevity studies with these animals, to truly assess the effects of powerfeeding, fasting etc.,

sharthun · 03-01-14, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starbuck

So do you take your weather data from where they are endemic to ordo you base (bad/good) days on weather locally? I could come up with arguments for both fronts? Very interesting, I like the plan! Its a shame it is so difficult to do longevity studies with these animals, to truly assess the effects of powerfeeding, fasting etc.,

Yeah, even to collect average seasonal climate data from your animals native habitat might be a challenge but could be done, maybe even with Google!

Derek Roddy · 03-01-14, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starbuck

Its a shame it is so difficult to do longevity studies with these animals, to truly assess the effects of powerfeeding, fasting etc.,

It's not difficult, it just takes time.

In the early 90's I had a clutch of Carpets that I did a feeding experiment with.

As a kid I spent several hours a day in the woods looking for wildlife....snakes in general. In all that time as a kid (and even now) I had NEVER seen a fat snake in the bush...(still to this day haven't). Sure, maybe see a snake that's eaten a big meal but, never a fat snake.

So, when I started keeping exotics (in the mid/late 80s) and, meeting local herpers, etc... I would always hear these statements like "condition her for breeding" make sure she has "enough body weight", "fatten her up", etc.

Didn't really think about it until I started noticing that the average life span of a captive snake was only about 15 years. I had read in books that snakes have been known to live upwards of 40 years in zoo's (who BTW don't use terms or husbandry like "fatten her up for breeding") so, I wondered if over feeding these animals would shorten their life span?

In the early 90s... I had a clutch of carpets that I gave 2.2 to a buddy who was of the "condition for breeding" mindset.
For the first 3 years he fed very heavy, and when the animals were mature and breeding, he would cut back feeding and offer very large meals but, only every few weeks.

I kept 2.2 for myself and started a feeding schedule of smaller meals more often.

Now my animals weren't breeding as quickly as his were but, all of his are now dead (at about 13/15 years old) and mine are still breeding at 20+.

D

Derek Roddy · 03-01-14, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharthun

Yeah, even to collect average seasonal climate data from your animals native habitat might be a challenge but could be done, maybe even with Google!

Google...

annual yearly temps in ________

Very easy.

D

**Tsubaki** · 03-01-14, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starbuck

So do you take your weather data from where they are endemic to ordo you base (bad/good) days on weather locally? I could come up with arguments for both fronts? Very interesting, I like the plan! Its a shame it is so difficult to do longevity studies with these animals, to truly assess the effects of powerfeeding, fasting etc.,

I base bad/good days on the weather here, with the climate of their country of origin off-course. I once compared just the good days / bad days ratio online, without looking at the temps/climate.. There wasn't any substantial difference in numbers.

I have often wondered the same thing, if it influences their age. I have had some very old snake who were still going strong! And i also do not believe in ' fattening up' females breeding.

Terranaut · 03-01-14, 11:36 AM

A product idea I discussed with Mykee a year ago was a thermostat thatused internet weather data from the snakes natural area to set daily temps. It would be easy to do manually.

Starbuck · 03-01-14, 01:04 PM

Im sure its not that difficult to get rainfall/humidity/temp/day length data, but my concern would be that the snake gets different environmental signals which dont sync with what they are actually experiencing due to barometric pressure (almost impossible to control in captivity) and magnetic conditions (not studied to my knowledge in snakes, and likely not very important given that they dont migrate) but if barometric readings indicate a storm but regional locality data says dry and hot, perhaps you'd be confusing the snake.

KORBIN5895 · 03-01-14, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryS

Shorter than the same specie averages in the wild?
I honestly would have thought the opposite.

I do like the idea too though, and as I've said before I believe this is the direction our hobby is headed. I see computer integrated climate control becoming the norm even in modest setups in the future.

I'm hearing a lot of people claiming bias are dying around 10-12 years old.

**Tsubaki** · 03-01-14, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starbuck

Im sure its not that difficult to get rainfall/humidity/temp/day length data, but my concern would be that the snake gets different environmental signals which dont sync with what they are actually experiencing due to barometric pressure (almost impossible to control in captivity) and magnetic conditions (not studied to my knowledge in snakes, and likely not very important given that they dont migrate) but if barometric readings indicate a storm but regional locality data says dry and hot, perhaps you'd be confusing the snake.

Using local weather conditions would solve that problem, the reason i use local weather is because i also use natural daylight. I think it would be very confusing if there is a storm here, but the enclosure temperature rises because the locality data says it is very sunny. Also like i said before, the pure amount of good days/ bad days do not differ that much from each other, the only real difference is the climate. So if its a bad day here, their habitat has the ambient temperature of a bad day in their own climate.

shaunyboy · 03-01-14, 07:40 PM

i adjust my temperatures according to the season,and turn the heat off at night,except in the winter when i set the thermostats to give the correct night time lows...

i use the BBC Worldwide Weather website to get the temps in Australia,this gives me great guide lines

i keep my Carpets lean and muscular and don't attempt breeding until the age of 5 years and over

i give my carpets 3 or 4 feeds per winter

i only feed my Diamonds 6 month of the year and they get a yearly cooling cycle from their 2nd year on wards

cheers shaun

CosmicOwl · 03-02-14, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Roddy

It's not difficult, it just takes time.

In the early 90's I had a clutch of Carpets that I did a feeding experiment with.

As a kid I spent several hours a day in the woods looking for wildlife....snakes in general. In all that time as a kid (and even now) I had NEVER seen a fat snake in the bush...(still to this day haven't). Sure, maybe see a snake that's eaten a big meal but, never a fat snake.

So, when I started keeping exotics (in the mid/late 80s) and, meeting local herpers, etc... I would always hear these statements like "condition her for breeding" make sure she has "enough body weight", "fatten her up", etc.

Didn't really think about it until I started noticing that the average life span of a captive snake was only about 15 years. I had read in books that snakes have been known to live upwards of 40 years in zoo's (who BTW don't use terms or husbandry like "fatten her up for breeding") so, I wondered if over feeding these animals would shorten their life span?

In the early 90s... I had a clutch of carpets that I gave 2.2 to a buddy who was of the "condition for breeding" mindset.
For the first 3 years he fed very heavy, and when the animals were mature and breeding, he would cut back feeding and offer very large meals but, only every few weeks.

I kept 2.2 for myself and started a feeding schedule of smaller meals more often.

Now my animals weren't breeding as quickly as his were but, all of his are now dead (at about 13/15 years old) and mine are still breeding at 20+.

D

This is really interesting. It seem like a schedule of smaller meals more frequently would be less natural than feeding large meals less frequently.